We’re joined by three DomainSherpas: Andrew Rosener, Frank Schilling and Shane Cultra.
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On today’s DomainSherpa Review, we talk about magic beans, the ebbs and flows of sales, and what puts frank schilling to sleep.
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Michael Cyger: Hey everyone. I’m Michael Cyger, Publisher of DomainSherpa.com, and this is the DomainSherpa Review. This is the show where we get into the minds of successful domain name investors using real examples, so we can learn strategies and tactics.
We have three segments to the review. We will start off learning what the Sherpas recently bought and sold, and for what price. Next, we will discuss and value an investor-submitted domain name portfolio. And finally, we will preview some domains going to auction soon at NameJet.com with no reserve or reserve met.
Joining us today on the DomainSherpa Review are three past Sherpas and industry thought leaders. In order from left to right, we have Andrew Rosener, CEO of the domain name brokerage firm, MediaOptions.com; Frank Schilling, Internet investor, entrepreneur, and Founder of the registry and registrar, Uniregistry.com; and Shane Cultra, Publisher of the blog, DomainShane.com, and Owner of the Country Arbors Nursery in Illinois. Sherpas, welcome to today’s show.
Andrew Rosener: Thanks, Michael.
Frank Schilling: Thanks, buddy.
Michael: So, I want to give a quick shout-out and thanks to everybody that attended DN Seattle on May 12th at GoDaddy’s Kirkland offices, just north of Downtown Seattle. Thanks to the 90 people that showed up, the 105 that paid, as well as our awesome event sponsors, GoDaddy, Donuts, Right Side, and Domain Sponsor. We raised more than five thousand dollars to help find a cure for cancer. Thanks also to our Sherpa panel at the event. We had Jeffrey Emerick, Joe Styler from GoDaddy, and Dave Evanson from Sedo, who provided unique and insightful perspectives on our discussion topic of domain name liquidity.
You can watch that educational portion of DN Seattle by visiting DomainSherpa.com and scrolling down the homepage. Look for the DN Seattle icon there, or check it out on iTunes or Stitcher under DomainSherpa. Shane, your boy from Domain Shane came out. Aaron.
Shane Cultra: Yeah, we represent. We always like to send representatives from DSAD to all the events.
Michael: You guys are sharers. You are givers.
Shane: Yeah, he said he had a great time. He just drove over, I think.
Michael: He drove over. I think he was hanging out with a friend in Portland. Came up. Yeah, we had the whole Portland contingency. Ray King came up. Kevin Fink came up. Bunch came down from Vancouver. Over from Idaho. We had my new boy Mark Levine came over from Minneapolis.
Michael: So, yeah, some pretty great. I think it is just Pacific Northwest, but when people fly in, that is just phenomenal. Andrew Alleman came up from Texas. So, yeah, just a great time. And true to Domain Shane form, Aaron and I stayed up till 2:30 not playing Craps this time.
Shane: We only drink three times per year.
Michael: Exactly. So, it was a great time. Next year, I want to have the entire Sherpa panel come on out to Seattle. It was really a great time.
Andrew: Yeah, next year, when I am not making babies.
Michael: Yeah, stop making babies, man.
Frank: He is hard at work down there.
Michael: All right. Well, it is great to have you guys here. We are going to start off with a segment called What’s New, Sherpas, where Sherpas share one purchase or sale that they have made over the past few weeks and we get to learn what you guys paid or received for the domain, why you thought it was a good deal, and how negotiation progressed. I am going to lead you through the questions, but the other Sherpas are also going to get to comment, cajole, whatever you want to call it as we are going through the process. The order of this segment is going to be Drew, then Frank, and then Shane in order.
Drew, what is one domain name that you have personally bought or sold or negotiated or your company has bought or sold or negotiated in the past couple of weeks? Tell us the domain name and not the price yet.
Andrew: Okay, we just actually picked one up yesterday that I am fairly fond of. Globetrotter.com.
Michael: Globetrotter.com. Frank.
Frank: I like it. Maybe I am showing my age here, but I picture the Harlem Globetrotters. I cannot stop it.
Michael: Yeah, I know. Me too. I just picked up my son from daycare and one of the main caregivers there was wearing a Harlem Globetrotters jersey. I was like we are one of the only three people that know who the Harlem Globetrotters are.
Andrew: I have seen the Globetrotters live.
Frank: I lost an absolutely fortune all my life betting on the Washington Generals.
Shane: They recovered twice.
Frank: Great name.
Michael: Yeah. So, Globetrotters. Besides the Harlem Globetrotters.
Andrew: This is singular.
Michael: Globetrotter. Frank, what do you think of when you think of Globetrotter?
Frank: Well, I think of Globetrotters. That is one of the downsides of that one, and the other downside to that one is the double Ts in there. Not everyone can spell it when they are in a hurry, but I like the name.
Michael: What do you think he picked it up for?
Frank: I would want to hope he paid under five grand he just ripped it. You need those deals. Every dog needs his day, and I want to say that yesterday was Drew’s day.
Michael: Yeah. All right, Shane, what do you think Drew picked up Globetrotter.com for?
Shane: Well, it is a great travel name. I mean there is no doubt that is where we are headed with that name, and yeah, the first thing I think is Globetrotters too. I mean I saw them 30 years ago and I saw them three years ago. They are still going strong.
Michael: I am going to have to go find the soundtrack to the Globetrotters and play it underneath this section.
Shane: As a kid, we watched the cartoon even.
Frank: The first thing that comes to mind is Harlem. The second thing that comes to mind is Curly. Third thing that comes to mind is Scooby Doo.
Shane: But I have been pretty good with Drew lately. I have been right on the money for the past couple months, so I am going to say he paid more than that because I think it is worth more in a travel name, but I will say 85 hundred.
Michael: 85 hundred. Drew, what did you pay for Globetrotter.com?
Andrew: So, I paid ten grand, which I felt was high at first. So, I basically offered him five grand and they were thinking it through, and then they came back. Yeah, ten grand. It is yours. We do not want to sell it for less. And I actually passed it first. I said I appreciate it. I am going to pass. And then I kind of slept on it and the next day it was like one of those things where sometimes you wake up and it was like the one particular domain I was talking about the day before just was front and center in my mind and I was thinking Globetrotter.com. Man, that is a —- great brand.
And so, this started kind of —- around on the Internet and I started seeing all these different products and services and travel concierge, and insurance and travel insurance, and helicopter emergency evacuation services, and it was just an endless array. Truly an endless array of different price. Super high luxury, like Louie Vuitton style classic trunks that are being made. It is just an endless array of expensive products and services under the Globetrotter brand, and I thought oh —-.
And so, I just emailed him back and I said you know what. I thought about it overnight. Ten grand. Thank you very much. Have a nice day. I will take it. And I got it and I am very, very pleased. And a cherry on top is that it has immense traffic that I did not even anticipate.
Andrew: Yeah, because Globetrotter. So, I started looking into it and Globetrotter.de is like 20-thousand Alexa rank. And then Globetrotter.ch is another big brand, but it is German traffic. It is Swiss traffic.
Michael: But still it is related to the travel industry.
Andrew: Yeah, so I like it. I am very happy. Actually it is kind of one of those not an expensive purchase that I think will probably be a 20 or 30 banger. We will see.
Michael: When you say 20 or 30 banger, you mean sell it quickly for 20 to 30K.
Andrew: I said bagger, but yeah. 20 bagger. Like a ten bagger would be 10x.
Michael: I think of dime bag, but it is actually 20 thousand dollars.
Andrew: I think it is a 150 to 250 name. That is what I think it is going to do. And it is not going to happen tomorrow.
Michael: Yeah, but that is going to be your asking price on it.
Andrew: Yeah, there are quite a few large organizations that use this moniker, so we will see.
Michael: There are. So, how did this deal cross your desk, Drew? Is this one that you reached out to? Is this somebody that emailed you?
Andrew: This is on my lifetime hit list. I have a hit list of probably – I do not know – 20 to 30 thousand names that I would love to own.
Shane: 20 to 30 thousand names. Is it 20 or 30?
Michael: We all have different.
Andrew: We just whittle away, whittle away every day. Whittle away. Whittle away.
Michael: So, this was an end user that owned it that was using it for something.
Andrew: Yeah, this was a company called Skymed, and they had it. It was a company they had acquired. They acquired a travel concierge service and they were in the emergency evacuation or like supplemental travel insurance, or something like that. And yeah, they were not using it anymore.
Michael: So, this is not the same company that you sold or bought Skylift, or what was that?
Michael: Airlift. Not related to that.
Andrew: Was it Airlift?
Michael: Airlift. I think it was Airlift.com, yeah.
Andrew: Or Medivac or something. Airlift.
Michael: Yeah, it was the generic.
Andrew: No, totally different. Completely unrelated, but I have had a little bit of success in that space.
Michael: Yeah. All right, well, congratulation, Drew. Frank.
Frank: My turn already?
Michael: We are going in order. Straight across the board. Do you have one picked out yet?
Frank: I do.
Michael: All right. What is the domain? Tell us the domain and not the price.
Frank: Okay, let’s go in the vain of yesterday. A sale. LoveAndMoney.
Michael: LoveAndMoney.com I take it.
Frank: Yeah, and I figured, again, in the vain of yesterday.
Michael: Yeah, yesterday. Hey Shane, let’s go over to you. LoveAndMoney.com. I am going to assume that this was a Uniregistry domain name sales sale, Frank.
Frank: You assume correctly, good sir.
Michael: So, it is in your portfolio. You sold it. Shane, what do you think Uniregistry sold LoveAndMoney.com for?
Shane: I think they have got a move or show, or both. Yeah, it is two things that go together very, very well.
Frank: But it is just two words and it does not particularly roll off the tongue.
Michael: Three words. Love and money. I thought three words were dead with all the new gTLDs.
Frank: They are under pressure.
Andrew: They go together nicely. Love helps money and money helps love. It is love and money. It is a great concept. Love and money makes a good life. If you have got love and money, what else do you need?
Frank: Love and money. There are just so many ways to say that. I like it. It is a fine name.
Shane: Well, just judging by his actions, I am lowering my price already. I am going to go with 22 thousand.
Michael: Drew, let’s go over to you. What do you think about LoveAndMoney.com?
Andrew: So, my gut is like eight thousand dollars, but I am going to say 12 just because I do not know how often Frank is selling under ten.
Frank: I wish I had something more exciting just to offer up today. I feel like I am letting everybody down, but no, it was a 20-grand sale.
Michael: 20 grand.
Michael: Nice job, Shane.
Andrew: I went low because he is so down.
Michael: I know!
Andrew: He was defensive.
Michael: They are under pressure. It is a three-word. It could go either way. Money and love. Love and money. But still you worked 20K out of it. If you look in the notes, Frank, does it say what the original offer was on that one when you got the inquiry?
Frank: That is actually a really good question. Let’s have a look while you guys can gesticulate.
Michael: Because if it was in my portfolio, it would start off with like a ten-dollar offer.
Shane: Yeah, exactly.
Michael: It is three word.
Frank: I think this guy might have been a student actually.
Shane: He was doing a summer project.
Andrew: You know what. If it was not for all those students out there buying these high-value domains, we would be out of business.
Frank: I think it started at like five hundred bucks.
Michael: Five hundred bucks. Opening offer.
Frank: Let’s see. Yeah, I think that is right.
Michael: And then what was the first offer back by your sales representative?
Frank: Oh, let’s see.
Shane: 23 hundred to two thousand.
Frank: No, 26 grand.
Michael: 26 grand, wow. Five hundred bucks, 26 grand, and then he or she closed it at 20K.
Michael: That is pretty good.
Frank: Yeah, that is what it looks like here.
Michael: And how long did the negotiation take, Frank?
Frank: Well, that is actually a really good lesson for us all. This one started. It looks like the first inquiry was 2014.
Frank: Long conveyor belt.
Andrew: That is long.
Frank: Actually we see a lot of those. One year is not unusual. People get discouraged when somebody knocks on your door and you have not gotten a sale right away. You have just got to kind of accept the deals take a long time. You price your names today. You are frustrated by all those sales requests. We are trying to make it more efficient for you to price your name, but keep giving those prices and just know that it is like a long conveyor belt. Down the line, one day you are going to be a happy man as they start falling off the end of the bell. It is a pipeline.
Michael: So, who did the sale? Do you want to give a shout out to one of your salespeople?
Frank: Andrew Matthias. Fist bump.
Michael: Fist bump there for you, Andrew. LoveAndMoney. 20K.
Frank: Yeah, solid deal.
Michael: Yeah. All right. Thanks, Frank. Shane, let’s go over to you. What is one domain you have bought or sold over the past few weeks?
Shane: Well, I am unhappy to announce that I have not done —- for two weeks.
Michael: Shut down.
Shane: Yeah, I mean that conveyor belt is rolling hard for me. In all honesty, Mike and I, we talked earlier. Right now, well, there is a couple things going on. One of all, I will do a million dollars in these next three weeks in plant sales, so that is where my money is at. I will make more in these next three weeks than I will make in domaining for the year, so I have got to concentrate on that. But at the same time, I have been doing Drew’s side. I have been contacting people for names that I would like to own. My bucket list. And I have gotten through.
I mean honestly I listen to Drew. Some of these were huge companies and I thought no way were they interested in selling the names, and I will be damned if I did not get through to the right people that finally said yeah, we bought that company. We have not used it in a while. Let me get to so and so. They contact me back. I know it is going to take a long time. This is not going to be Johnny just saying yeah, go ahead and sell the name, but I have gotten through to three names that I really want that are one-worders. It is just going to take a while. And then, on the flips side, lots of inquiries. A lot of them start at a thousand dollars, but it just takes a long time.
In two weeks, things happen; sometimes they do not. I am not really interested right now and I do not have the time to do any quick flipping because you have to pay attention to those 300-dollar, 500-thousand. I just do not want to fill a portfolio of those names without paying attention and I do not have my full focus. I am not going to lie. So, I have just been working the bigger stuff, building the bigger names. As you said, the assets that go into my 401K of domaining. And nothing has happened, and I am okay with that. Fortunately, I do not have to live on that. I mean I have other sources of income. And the blogs and the websites give me plenty income that I could live on those.
So, to me, the lesson is you do not always have to be buying and selling name. I know the numbers are there, but there are some lulls that you have got to get through in domain investing, and I am in that lull and that happens and I am not worried about it.
Frank: It is cyclical. I have seen the same thing actually. Without naming names, I have a couple of guys that I talk to every now and then in the industry. I am like how are things going and they are like I have not sold anything. I am getting kind of worried. It has been a few weeks. And these are people who do this for a living at scale. And then all of a sudden they will have a windfall where they will do like three deals laid up. You have got to be able to kind of budget your cash flow for those lulls. That said, big operations do have to turn regular. In our scale, we have got to turn regularly, so we might have to let names go cheaper if we are having a bad month because we do have numbers we have got to make.
Michael: But you also have the inventory that allows you to do that.
Frank: You have got to have some inventory. You can burn the furniture if things are a little tough.
Michael: Yeah, and we chat about it in the DNA Groups on DNAcademy. The pro students that get together on a weekly basis, that see each other’s face, that chat and share deals that are going through or inquiries that they have coming in or things that they are thinking about buying. Some weeks I get on there and I have a larger portfolio. I only have 150 investment domains. That is it. All the rest are businesses, brands, defensive for DomainSherpa, or whatever. And some weeks I get on there and I am like I closed this and here is how I did it on the phone. I closed this and here is the email that I did. I closed this one on Flippa and I used this broker.
And then other weeks like nothing is happening. Two weeks I do not think anything has happened for me. And this was going to be the year that I blow out all my mid-tier domains. I am like I am done with those. I am just going to go Frank Schilling and Drew Rosener type domains, and just sit and wait like you and I were talking about. Those are my 401K. Those are domains that I am just going to wait for the perfect, highest, and best use case end user to come make the inquiry. I am going to negotiate over probably a long period of time, just like Frank was talking about, and close that deal. That is going to kick into my retirement just like everything else. And I do not want to negotiate the smaller deals, but then so many just fell right into my lap. like somebody emails me. A ditch digger in Spokane. Like an actual ditch digger called me and wanted to buy DitchDigger.com. I am like done. Get it into the perfect hands of the person that is doing that work. And so, it ebbs and flows. That is the industry.
Shane: Yeah, and your sales tend say how aggressive you are going to be. So, I had a great January and February. I made more money in those two months than I did all of last year, and so my aggressiveness turned down. I was like hey, I am not taking less than this, because I do not need it at this point, so I am not hungry. So, I have not sold as many. I could have sold more, but I did not need to. I did not want to. And I do not think the names are going down in value, so I will just keep rolling. So, that is essentially what happened in two weeks. I sure as hell am not going to buy a name just to have it on the show.
Frank: No, but one wonderful data point I can share with you all is something that I have noticed. And I was wondering when this might happen, is I am seeing some uptick in new gTLD sales, like SLDs, domain names in new geo-graphics, premium ones. We are seeing some turn at like five figures, which was really surprising. I have said yes to a few days. I have not seen them. I was just looking for them up in the board. They have not closed yet, but they are waiting to close. Next show I can tell you about them. So, that is interesting, and I wondered when I would start to see a little bit more. Just a little bit more of that, but at the same time, I have noticed some resistance where buyers are saying no, I see a lot of other names available. I see some of these.
I have had one for sure say I can get the dot something else. I cannot remember the name or I would tell you all, but I thought that was interesting. It was something on my fratted mind. When we started the whole new gTLD thing I was a little worried about it because I was like when is it going to start. At some point, there is going to be some marginalization somewhere. I do not know when or how, and I have noticed somewhat of it. This is just, again, I am looking across a lot of portfolios. I am looking across my own portfolio. We have got a big swath of premium names that we have in Uniregistry strings and we are seeing things are perking.
So, it is not like a wholesale marginalization or anything like that, but there is definitely. I am looking at my top sales and there is definitely some. My top sales were high. Maybe that is internally biased maybe because we are saying yes sooner and maybe I am foretelling that myself. I am part of the problem.
Michael: Right, by driving it with the metrics. Yeah.
Frank: Boom, but there is something there. There is five percent of something in the air.
Michael: Yeah. All right, time will tell.
Frank: Yeah, we will keep an eye on it.
Michael: All right, thanks, Sherpas. We are going to move on. In the next segment of the show, in the Domain Portfolio Review, we take a user-submitted domain name portfolio and provide honest and constructive feedback to the owner, so they can either cut their losses, continue to hold them long-term, or figure out a sales strategy going forward.
Today’s portfolio was submitted by Abdullah Alkulaibi. As part of Abdullah’s submission, he made a generous donation to the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center to help us all find a cure for cancer. Abdullah’s list of only 13 domains. We take up to 25. Abdullah only gave us 13 domain names. The list starts with Bunny.com and it ends with VRTelevision.com. Now, Abdullah knows they are good domain names. In particular, he wants to hear realistic retail pricing from you Sherpas so that he can make sure that he is not overpricing or underpricing his domain names for sale.
So, this segment, the order is going to be Frank, then Shane, and then Drew. Frank, let’s start with you. What domain names do you like best on Abdullah’s list and what is your realistic asking price if you owned them?
Frank: Yeah. So, again, personally, what a wow list. This is really, really nice stuff, and I heard one of you at the beginning when we were not recording say that these were relatively recently acquired or in the last recent time. Quite a list and quite impressive. And retail pricing. This is a little bit of how long is a piece of string question. I will give you an example. Names that obviously jump out are the ones right at the top of the list is cute. Bunny and Crisis. I mean those are really punchy brands. Strider. Wow. Just short. Punches you in the face. Amazing. Really powerful stuff. Lumbar.
I mean not sure what Shiso means, but I bet you it is something good. When you see names like that, folks, I mean this is the moment of truth when I say how long is a piece of string. You could fold your arms on these names and say you know what. Somebody calls you and says how much is the price, and then you talk to them for a little bit. Do a consultative sales approach. I will ask my board and get back to you, and then you get back to them, and then you tell them that name will be 3.6 million. And then, with your delivery, half the people might say oh my God, that is crazy, but within sometime in the next half decade, if you have the fortitude to tell somebody 3.6 million over and over and over again, I would bet eventually on some of these somebody might come along and offer you a million bucks.
Now, you are never going to get there if you offer them three hundred grand. You are just not going to get to the million bucks. It is not going to happen.
Michael: But the question then is which one of these domain names is worth a million bucks that you are going to ask 3.6 million for.
Frank: And there again is how long is a piece of string, because I would argue that any one of those ones I just mentioned. Bunny. Crisis. Shiso could be really something terrific in Japanese. Sounds like it is good. Strider. Somebody might want that bad enough. Lumbar. Somebody might want that bad enough to pay a million bucks. So, those are the ones that obviously jump out because they are so short.
Michael: Because they are short. One-word. Could be a brand, but it is also a word in the dictionary.
Frank: Powerful. All powerful one words.
Michael: So, you would sell those for seven figures. A million bucks. Low seven figures. Bunny. Crisis. Strider. Lumbar.
Frank: Let’s put this in perspective. I am a guy who works in volume, who runs a bigger show. If I had those, they probably would not be that high. If you were a buyer, you would get a better deal on those from me.
Michael: You just sold LoveAndMoney for 20K. That is three words, and these are like single words.
Frank: For every LoveAndMoney, and I will rip one out. There is one that we would let go for five grand or something, and we run some volume too. But looking at these, those are the ones that really. They are all good. Like RetailTherapy. Wow. BlockChain. Obviously good. ExtraSpecial. Love it. FashionablyLate. Cute, but a little long. VRTelevision. Not as fond. And UrbanPlan just does not get me all excited and my hair is not standing up on my arms with UrbanPlan.
So, it is an awesome list. Some of them are putting my feet to sleep a little more, like Demographic. I am like eh, what was that name again. Demographic. What was it again? Demographic. But these other ones. Those other four that I mentioned are just, like I said, punch you in the face, boom, like wow. Big names. And names like those you can ask a lot of money for, but you have got to have the swagger, the fortitude, and the courage to ask or you will never get it.
Michael: Okay, and this has got to be like his 401K. He is going to hold on to them for 20 to 30 years and wait for the perfect buyer to come along, and he could get a million dollars for Bunny, Crisis, Strider, and Lumbar.
Frank: Right. What I like about those, like RetailTherapy. Hey folks, there is a Retail.Therapy and not today, not tomorrow, but one day it is going to catch up to RetailTherapy.com.
Michael: So, what would you price RetailTherapy at?
Frank: That is a toughy. RetailTherapy. I like it. I would probably try for 30 grand and cut it loose in the 20s. Even though it is cute, I am the kind of guy who leaves some on the table for the other guy, and I have got a lot of two-word terms like that, so I do not look at it with the same eye to passion. My optic is different. But names like Bunny, Crisis, and Strider. Shiso. That Japanese one is hot. Lumbar. Names like that, there will not be a .LINK or a dot something else that could marginalize it as easily because it is not at the span the dot in there. Except I cannot tell you. At this particular moment, I am very happy to report that Bunny.Mom, Crisis.Mom, Strider.Mom, and all those are available I believe, so get in there.
And honestly we laugh. If these are a million bucks or 3.6 million, then it is not such a bad thing to take a flier on the .MOM.
Michael: All right. And I do not know what Shiso means. I did not look it up, but what about the BlockChain.com, Frank? That came back with an EstiBot value of goose egg. Do you think that has any value?
Frank: Obviously it does, but it is one of those timely names. Not as timely. It is obviously a thing of value, and as the BlockChain grows in importance, I can see how that would be something, but what is that like.
Michael: What would you ask for it?
Frank: We just sold one like that. ____. I am trying to remember. It as timely like that. Oh, Cloudlet.com. I think I got 50 grand for that. So, are they going to be calling it clouds in the next two years? Maybe. Probably. And cloudlets. They have droplets and applets, and things. I could see that having legs, but at the same time, they called it storage or web storage in my time five years ago. Maybe they will call it something else in the future. It is hard to say, so you have got to kind of pick your battles for timeliness, viz-a-viz cash now. Cash now is always better than cash later.
Michael: So, if you owned it in your portfolio, what would you ask for TheBlockChain.com?
Frank: TheBlockChain. I think today I will swing in the long name, three words. I still like it. Mike Berkens has proven the ‘the’ domains do quite well. So, high 30s. High 30s, low 40s or settle in the 30s. Try for 49. Settle in the 30s.
Michael: All right, cool. Thanks, Frank. Shane, let’s go over to you. What do you think of Abdullah’s list and which ones stand out to you and what would you price the domains at?
Shane: Sure. So, you told us that we had to put some good prices on this, so I actually did some homework this time.
Shane: And I am the one who looked through. I had seen a couple of these names because I worked the list and almost all of these were purchased at auction last year. So, I know exactly. It is public information. So, given that information, it gives me a better idea of what to price them, just because I know what it went for at auction, what kind of investment already put into it. So, for instance, and I hope he does not mind me saying it, but anybody can find it.
Michael: Public information.
Shane: It is public. So, RetailTherapy, for instance, he paid 65 hundred for it in August of 2015. So, he has got 65 hundred dollars in it. I tried to price the names before I knew what they cost at action, and then I re-priced them afterwards and most of it did not change too much. But 65 hundred is a good price to pay for that name, but before I had it at like 25 to 30 thousand was the name that I would ask for something like that.
But we will move back up to Bunny. I mean Bunny I put 250 thousand before I did anything. I did not find any purchase price for that, but Bunny. I am a fat guy, so I eat Blue Bunny ice cream way too often. When I saw Bunny, I thought ice cream, but obviously Bunny can be anything. That is a holder. That is your million-dollar name. I agree with Frank. If you want to go for a million, that is a name you just wait for the right person. So, that is an easy one. That was not purchased. Strider was one of my favorites. It can be so many things and it does not have to represent. It just represents movement. And he paid five grand for it in 2015.
Michael: That is a good buy.
Shane: That is a hell of a buy. Hell of a buy. So, I put 100 grand up there. Would sell it for 75. Maybe even 50 if I am turning it, especially if I put five grand into it and I can get 50 in a year.
Michael: Right, and so that speaks to the differences between investors. You will take money off the table if you get a good enough return on investment. You are not concerned about eking out every single hundred thousand dollars on a domain name by holding it five or ten years longer if you can flip it and get a good return on your investment.
Shane: I will explain. Us and every other investment place in the world. When we say I am only going to take a ten bagger, if somebody offers you 50, you are going to make 45K in a year and you are thinking well, I will just take the easy money. No, that is an incredible investment. You keep moving. That is an annual salary of most people in the United States. That is a lot of money. That is the thing we forget.
Andrew: Hold on. Sorry, I have to cut through. You have to keep in mind that that is a dangerous way to look at it because it depends on your scale. So, I am sort of in the middle, Frank is at the largest scale, and you are at a smaller scale in terms of size of your portfolio. And so, for you, it is okay to analyze it that way, but I think above that, we have got six thousand domains and we are relatively actually very small, but even with six thousand names, if I sell four percent per year, which is probably even on the high side, you are never going to sell all your names. And so, even though one name is a ten bagger, you have got to account for all the names that you are not going to sell.
So, even if you look at a ten-year, decade span of your business and you say, let’s say, two percent per year. You are going to sell 20 percent of your names. You have got 80 percent of your names still sitting there at the end of a decade if everything is stagnant and you have got to account for that. I mean yes, they are assets. They are on your books, but you have got to account for that cash flow, that opportunity cost in the names that you do sell. So, even though it is a ten bagger, like yeah, sure, people look at me like I am crazy. I am like I bought this name for two grand. I just sold it for 75 thousand dollars. And they are like wow, what world do you live in. And then yeah, but I also bought 500 thousand dollars in names in the last 90 days that I have not sold yet.
Andrew: And tomorrow who knows.
Frank: Have you ever added up how much you spend to actually cash out in total for your portfolio? Have you got that on the books?
Michael: I do. It is in my FT dashboard. I know that I am actually under water right now; that I have spent more than I have made, but I have also got an enormous amount of high value domain names, which are on the books. So, yeah, knowing how much you are actually in the hole is important.
Frank: Yeah, and that is a really good metric. A couple years back, we did the look back. It has been a few years. I am sure it is more now, but I think at point it was like 48 million bucks we had spend buying names as inventory in. I was like holy crap. I spent 48 million dollars. I grew up on a (Unclear 33:47.6). It is amazing.
Andrew: I have the same reaction. I look at it and I am like whoa, jeez, I mean we actually spent that much. That means we actually had that much cash in-house. We have spent that. That was real money. We spent that money.
Frank: No. No, you traded it for a handful of magic beans.
Andrew: But some of those beans grow into big beanstalks.
Frank: Yeah, man. I got you, Jack.
Shane: I completely get that, that we are all, but at the same time, I tell people you are not buying just a bunch. A lot of people buy these shitty names. They just buy, buy, buy, and you have to be careful where you draw those. Let’s say this is all he bought, and he could have just bought these. You do not have to do that as much.
Frank: It is cyclical. I will tell you. I have been through phases where you buy like two thousand names and they are just total crap, and then all of a sudden you get like 12 like these, and then you buy two thousand total crap, and then you buy another.
Michael: Yeah. I wish I could throw down 2K on domains like Strider every single day, and then pass on RetailTherapy, although I think it is a great domain name and I do think it is worth 30, 40, 50 thousand dollars. 65 hundred bucks is a lot of money to pay for that.
Andrew: I would pay that. I think RetailTherapy is a great.
Michael: It is great, but the upside.
Andrew: Obviously Bunny.com and Crisis.com. These are better domains, but RetailTherapy is probably my favorite domain on this list. Sorry, I am getting ahead of myself here.
Michael: Okay, let me finish up with Shane, and then I am going to come back to you, Drew.
Shane: Okay, so I have got some more info.
Michael: What do you think for Bunny? I did not see that.
Shane: I could not find anything.
Michael: Oh, you could not find that one. What about Crisis? Frank said he liked Crisis, Shane. It seems like a negative keyword to me. Do you like that one as a brand?
Shane: Well, crisis management. I watch enough TV shows. I watch Scandal. There is a whole business in there. All kinds of different. They talk different. They do everything. So, yeah.
Michael: What would you price that one at?
Shane: I would put 100 grand on it. I actually wrote down 150K. Sell for 100K, because I know the crisis management firm on a big business charges a ton of money. And Crisis.net sold for 25 hundred. I always say five percent to ten percent of the .NET multiply it. So, if that is 25 hundred, you will at least get 50 grand just based on that sale. I do not always do it that way, but that gives you a little idea on that one.
Shane: Another one that was a good buy I thought was Lumbar.com. He bought it on Flippa for seven grand last year.
Andrew: That was a good buy, yeah.
Shane: I would pay seven grand any day for Lumbar. No doubt about it. I think I paid seven grand for a chair with lumbar. I am pretty sure. The couple that I do not like as much he paid. For Wildly, he paid four thousand on NameJet. And I think Wildly is okay, but it is a little odd for me. It does not get me excited.
Michael: Yeah, so what would you price that one at?
Shane: I said 20 grand, but honestly I would just try and make a profit on. It just does not mean much to me.
Michael: So, you are saying you would just try and move it out because it does not have the meaning.
Shane: Just because it does not excite me, but I am going to be the first to admit, and I will not get too off the tangent, but the reason we buy all these names, because the names that I sell are not the names that I thought I would sell, so all those shit names that we talked about, and Drew is right. It is a numbers game. So, all these ones that I said I am going to make money on this and I am going to get ten to 20, and then it is some name that I picked up on a weekend on a whim that I thought looked cool and I make ten times.
So, I get the numbers game. I do think I have a lot less overhead, so I can maybe turn things more. And again, there is a lot of people in the industry that will take an extra 30, 40,50 thousand. That is a lot of money to them, especially if you are in a foreign country. The cost of living. So, there is a whole other world out there, but I completely get what Drew is saying. As far as Data, I will give Drew facts. He paid a thousand dollars for FashionablyLate. I was in on that bidding. I thought that was great. It is a cool term. Everybody who is good to a party comes fashionable late, so I love that as a brand.
And then I will end here with TheBlockChain. That is a huge name, whether people know it or not. The whole financial system. These new financial systems are going to be built on the block chain. It is the backbone of money. Not bitcoin. I do not think bitcoin is nearly as big as block chain. This is a much, much bigger name, so I think that is fantastic. I would not sell it for less than 100 grand until I see how it plays out to be honest with you.
Michael: Yeah, that is a long-term hold because you have got to wait for the technology to catch up with the domain name potentially.
Shane: They are talking about block chain constantly.
Michael: Yeah. What would you ask on FashionablyLate.com?
Shane: FashionablyLate. I actually put 10K. I would sell it for 10K. It is one of those brands. I do not think there is going to be a huge amount of people offering money for it, so if I can make ten times my money I would probably take it and go.
Michael: Yeah, it is a little long also, don’t you think?
Shane: Yeah, but you are not going to misspell that too bad. When I look at a word, I think how many times could they spell it. How hard will it be to remember? FashionablyLate I do not think they will forget and I do not think they will mess it up in the spelling. So, I think it works. It is not too bad.
Michael: Yeah, all right. Thanks, Shane. Drew, let’s go over to you.
Andrew: So, yeah, I mean we have covered it all pretty well. I started saying before RetailTherapy I think is actually my favorite name in the list, just because I am balancing the different levers. So, cost of entry versus how likely I think I am to get a sale and the value of that sale. And I think RetailTherapy is just a super edgy, catchy, little brand. I like it a lot. I think it is a well above average, two-word, little thing just because it is in a hot segment. Could or could not be timely. I do not know, but it is a nice one. I think RetailTherapy.com. You are going to get 35 to 50 grand. Maybe 75. I would probably ask 75 grand actually. I would probably ask a little higher than I would normally on a two-word like that, but I think it probably comes in at 35 to 50 and you might get lucky. You might get lucky. It could be the next like Gwyneth Paltrow blog. It is a nice, little. The commerce inclination. It is nice. I like it.
Michael: Yeah, it is a good brand.
Andrew: Yeah, and it is the mix of commerce and science, which is always a very good area to be in with brands. Yeah, Crisis. I love Crisis. I like Crisis more than Bunny actually because crisis management is just massive. Talk about a booming industry. There is a —- crisis everywhere from cyber crime to politic crisis to personal crisis with reputation management. I think Crisis.com. Disaster recovery. Awesome brand. Crisis.com. Awesome brand.
Michael: What would you ask for it?
Andrew: So, Bunny.com I think you would be hard-pressed to get somebody to step up and pay a million, but I think Crisis.com, if you do have the balls and you hang in there, five hundred to a million dollars is very possible. You get the right party at your door. You are going to get that price. And then, if it is an off day, I think you are going to get 250 for it if you just say okay, I am going to let this thing out the door. Great, great name. We bought Fixer.com. Sort of same idea.
Michael: Isn’t that somebody that goes in and knocks people off – the fixer?
Andrew: The fixer is the one that solves the crisis.
Michael: Oh, just solves the crisis. That is what it is. It is a good thing. All right, let me ask you about a couple other domain names, Drew, that has not been mentioned. UrbanPlan.com. Obviously urban planning is a big area. UrbanPlan. Is that good or not?
Andrew: Here is the thing. UrbanPlan. Urban planning is a big thing, but it is like an inter-governmental thing. It is like bidding for contracts. I do not think UrbanPlan. Nobody is going to sit there and go oh, if I buy UrbanPlan.com for 100 grand, it is going to bring me all this extra business. Millions and millions of dollars. It is not going to affect the business. I do not see anybody. The name has value for sure.
Shane: He paid 26 hundred.
Andrew: Yeah, so the thing is 26 hundred is like right there, but I do not know that the end user is paying more than 25 hundred to five grand maybe or ten grand on the right day, and then is it worth it.
Michael: So, price it at maybe 20 and hope for the best.
Andrew: Yeah, maybe lower. Maybe lower. Just let that one get out the door. Look, if you let that one out the door, then you can hang on to Crisis a little bit longer. RetailTherapy a little bit longer. And you are going to make up for letting that one out the door for a couple of grand cheaper.
Michael: Definitely. Virtual reality. Booming. Continues to be a big search phrase. Conferences are growing. The technology is evolving. VRTelevision.
Andrew: I am super, super against these generic technology names.
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Andrew: I am super, super against these generic technology names. I honestly would be willing to bet five hundred dollars right here and now that VRTelevision.com never sells to an end user for like more than ten thousand dollars. Maybe he is going to make some phone calls and get the right guy to be like oh, I will give you five grand for it.
Michael: Why do you feel that?
Andrew: Because okay, I have seen so many. Larry Fisher had VideoRental or DVDRental.com. He was like oh, it is a million-dollar. Netflix paid for it. And then Netflix does not —- rent DVDs anymore I do not even think.
Andrew: And then it was like curved TVs. It was like I have got CurvedTV.com. This is a two-billion-dollar domain! Samsung needs it! And Samsung was like we do not give a —-. We are already on to the next thing.
Michael: Right, and Aaron over at Heritage Auctions owned Tablets.com. He was asking a million bucks for it before.
Andrew: Everybody broker in the business has tried to sell it. It is generic. God bless Aaron. Great domain. Tablets.com, but Apple does not need Tablets.com to sell iPads. So, I am very, very against these sort of uber generic. VRTV.com could have value just because it is short enough, but even VRTV.com is like it is not the million-dollar domain that most people are going to be like oh, VRTV.com. A million dollars. It is probably like 25 thousand dollars or 50 thousand dollars, and probably not an easy sell. So, I do not like those. I am very much against the uber generic.
Frank: Drew has convinced me. I am taking FoldingScreens off my list right now.
Michael: Exactly. Typewriters are coming off. ExtraSpecial.com. That seems like a domain that Uniregistry would sell for like some ungodly high. It is a phrase. People know it. Or Mike Berkens would sell for a lot. What do you think about ExtraSpecial.com?
Andrew: I like it. I mean it is certainly a name I would bid on.
Shane: It was sold for 23 hundred last year.
Michael: 23 hundred.
Andrew: Yeah, so that is just about right. 23 hundred dollars. I would pay for it.
Michael: What would you ask for it?
Andrew: 15 to 25 grand is probably what that sells for, but it might or might not sell. This is one of those ones that it is a catchy, little phrase. It might or might not sell. I could see like 1-800-FLOWERS. Show your loved one that they are something extra special this year, and ExtraSpecial.com. They did some campaign on it and they paid 15 grand for it.
Michael: Right, so it is a marketing campaign. It is not necessarily a company brand.
Andrew: It is probably not going to be a company name, but it could be some marketing campaign for Visa or 1-800-FLOWERS. One of the credit card companies I think has a nice. They just picked one up maybe six months ago and I just saw it actually come into the wild a few months ago. It was like live together or something. Just something like this.
Michael: Yeah. Hey, I just looked up Shiso on Wikipedia and it came back with a Japanese, Asian culinary herb belonging to the mint family.
Frank: Liking it already.
Shane: But there are a lot of restaurants because of that. There are places and restaurants, and all kinds of things. It would be like Cilantro.
Andrew: Look at Mint.com.
Michael: Well, but it is five letters, not four, and it is not mint. So, what would you ask on Shiso?
Andrew: It is to the Japanese guy.
Michael: Yeah, that is true. So, what would you ask on Shiso?
Andrew: Strong and early, strong currency at the moment and can afford more than you might think.
Michael: So, what would you ask on Shiso.com?
Andrew: Shiso.com. I would probably be asking like 75 thousand dollars, is probably what I would ask for.
Frank: I was going to say 50.
Shane: I wrote down 50.
Michael: All right, 50 to 75. All right. Anything we did not talk about. Retail. Demographic.com. So, I tend not to like these generic phrases where I cannot think of some commercial aspect. Drew, can you think of a commercial aspect to Demographic.com?
Andrew: No, there is a legitimate, super great commercial aspect, but it is like Frank said. Put your feet to sleep. It is just super boring. But granted it is a boring industry, but for these political campaigns. Do you know how much these people are spending on these demographic firms? These companies are coming in saying this is your demographic, and here is a report. It costs you one hundred grand, so we can tell you how to target your campaign. There is a business there, but it is just Demographic.com is not going to be. I do not see it going for a lot of money.
Shane: It sounds like a teenage t-shirt shop at the mall.
Frank: It sounds like a redirect.
Michael: Okay. Frank, what would you ask on Demographic.com?
Frank: 20 grand.
Michael: 20 grand.
Frank: I really do not like it.
Michael: Drew, what do you think?
Andrew: I was going to say 50.
Michael: 50. 20 to 50. Somewhere on that order of magnitude, depending on who is making the inquiry.
Andrew: I think I would probably just price it. I would personally price it at 50, but if somebody came in at 20 to 25, I probably would take that.
Frank: A lot of it comes down to emotion. I am obviously not willing to. You have got to feel it, and that one I do not feel it, but somebody else watching at home might be like damn, that is too cheap.
Michael: Well, but Frank, you run Uniregistry. You have a massive portfolio. You are not negotiating the domains anymore. You are not feeling it. You are still setting the pricing and your team is setting the pricing on your portfolio.
Frank: Yeah, I am still in there. My app. I have got a couple earlier today. I was like sell this. Do not sell that. They (Unclear 49:59.3) stuff to me and I will still take a look, just because it is culturally how we are.
Shane: I have a little option on my Domain Name Sales. I can choose Frank as my broker. I always pick it. You guys do not have that?
Michael: Your domains show up at Frank’s desk.
Shane: Maybe it is just a toggle for me. I do not know.
Michael: Abdullah, thank you for submitting your portfolio and making a generous donation to cancer research. We hope this review of your portfolio and the retail pricing provided by the Sherpas is useful to you and your investing activities going forward. Good luck to you. Great portfolio.
We are going to move on to the Marketplace List. This segment is sponsored by NameJet. We will be reviewing I think 12 domains going to auction soon. These are no reserve domains. I am trying to target domains that maybe a newer investor might want to put in a few more bucks and get one of the domain names. Maybe they can buy it for five hundred or two thousand that they are going to try and ask ten thousand to 20 thousand dollars for. All of the links down below go directly to NameJet. They are not commissionable. They are just for tracking purposes, so they can see how much traffic we are sending them.
I also ask for transparency. Sherpas, are any of the domains on today’s list owned or brokered by you or your companies?
Michael: I do not think so, okay.
Andrew: Not that I know of at least.
Michael: All right, this list starts with 26799.com, a five-number .COM. No fours, no zeros, and it ends with VeganPizza, baby. So, this list we are going to go Shane, then Drew, and then Frank. Shane, let’s start off with you. What do you like on the NameJet list and why?
Shane: I love VeganPizza. No, we will just get this one out of the way. Believe it or not, I think it goes for over a thousand dollars. VeganPizza.
Michael: A thousand bucks. All right, so we joke around about vegan. Every single time there is a vegan domain I have got to pull it out just because it makes me laugh. VeganPizza. Is this too niche, Shane? Are we getting into like the vegan anchovies now? The vegan tofu.
Shane: No, of the foods, I think vegan desserts are huge, and then vegan pizza is probably your next category.
Michael: There could be a whole book on just vegan pizzas.
Shane: Yeah, I am telling you.
Frank: Actually there is.
Shane: Oh yeah, absolutely.
Andrew: I would be willing to bet substantially that my wife has like three.
Shane: Three vegan pizzas.
Andrew: Three vegan pizza cookbooks.
Michael: So, you think it is going to go for over a thousand dollars. If you own VeganPizza.com, Shane, what would you offer it for sale for? What would you price it at?
Shane: I would probably be at five grand to eight grand on it. It is going to be a vegan pizza shop in Portland that buys it undoubtedly. You know exactly where it is headed.
Michael: All right, what else do you like on the list?
Shane: The other one. I did like GreenCleaner. Again, the environment. Because I grow plants for a living, my carbon footprint. I do not worry about these kinds of things, but it is a true fact. Green cleaner. The people that come in and clean your basements and do all this asbestos removal and the mold removal. That is tens in hundreds of thousands of dollars in asbestos and all these, so being a green cleaner I think fits in that category really week. At auction, I do not think it goes for much more than 25 hundred, three thousand perhaps, but it is a huge industry and I think it fits that industry as far as marking.
And I say that term a lot, a marketing name, because when it is on the side of your truck and you are on a billboard, It has to be easy to remember, easy to spell, and represent you very, very well, and that is a kind of name that they are going to remember if that is what you do. They may not remember Shlopsky and Schwartz Clean-Up Service, but they will remember green cleaner. So, I really like that one.
DailySoup. It is has been played out a lot. I think there is a show called the daily soup or something.
Michael: Yeah, comedy channel maybe.
Shane: Yeah, E I think it is. It is just kind of a word that means giving you information. We are going to talk about it every single day, so I like that one. I think it goes for probably only 15 hundred, but I think it is an eight to ten-thousand-dollar name for somebody down the road as well. It is not going to kill you. I think 26799 sells for 32 hundred dollars. I mean there is a pretty much finite price that they are going for right now, and I think I could probably come within five hundred dollars of exactly what it is going to sell on NameJet.
And then my favorite is probably HealthData. I do not think it is easier to sell, but I bet health industry. If I can be part of it in any way, everybody is getting bamboozled in this health crisis in the United States. That is why these two are sitting in another country. The health insurance market is just amazingly billions and billions of dollars coming out of our pocket, so HealthData has got to play into that market somehow. I am not sure how, but I think it is a really good one. And finally, Lipids. I know what lipids are. I know about the billions of dollars people spend on drugs to get their lipids under control. I do not think anybody is going to buy it. I do not think you are going to find Merk or any of those guys spending money on those.
Michael: Well, somebody is going to buy it on NameJet, but you are saying it does not have any commercial aspect behind that.
Shane: I do not think it should. I think everybody is going to think it does and they are going to say hey. We hear this all the time. This is a billion-dollar business. Well, —-, that does not mean they are going to spend any of that billion on your name.
Shane: (Unclear 55:43.0) guys have something else to talk about.
Michael: All right, sounds good. Thanks, Shane. Drew, let’s go over to you. What do you like on the NameJet list and why?
Andrew: So, I like a couple names. I like FTP.net. I like a lot.
Michael: I picked that one for you. I knew you would like it.
Andrew: Yeah, I have done very, very well with these really short, meaningful, three-letter .NETs. A few of them. FTP.net. I mean it is probably not six figures, but that is a good mid-30 to 30-thousand-dollar domain I think. 25.
Michael: And the .NET fits the file transfer prototype.
Andrew: Fits nicely, yeah.
Michael: So, just like we talk about with gTLDs. It matches.
Andrew: And look, here is the deal. .NET is going to have its renaissance. The faster people onboard with these new gTLDs, the faster they are going to realize oh, hell, there is this great gTLD that has been sitting around as a red-headed stepchild for the last 30 years. And one of the things Google takes into account the most is the age of a domain. And nice old, aged domains are great. People love them. Developers love them. Google loves them. And so, I like them.
Michael: So, you would ask mid-five figures for FTP.net.
Andrew: Yeah, I love that name.
Michael: What do you think it is going to sell for on NameJet?
Andrew: I would be one of those stupid guys who just hangs on to it and keep telling people some stupid number and then never let it go. I think it is going to go for like seven to eight grand on NameJet.
Shane: Yeah, it will now at least.
Michael: Yeah, well, because Drew is going to bid on it. What else do you like on the list, Drew?
Andrew: I like HealthData.com. It is right on the fence for me in terms of being uber generic, but still it is HealthData. It is good. I mean health data is literally going to be. It already is one of the most important growth sectors of the global economy, so I have got to think if somebody comes in and pays. And when I say like how much I like these, I do not necessarily rank them in terms of what I think are going to sell for. I rank them sort of more in terms of what I think I could buy it for, how easily I think it could sell, and return on that.
Michael: And so, what would you ask on HealthData if you owned it if you picked i up through this auction?
Andrew: Yeah, so I bet you pick it up here for like a grand or two, maybe three, and then I have got to believe that that name goes for 35 grand plus.
Michael: And you think that could be a company name, HealthData.
Andrew: Yeah, I mean at least until they raise their first hundred million and then somebody tells them to rebrand. I do not know. Just it is health data.
Michael: It is big.
Andrew: If somebody was like this was insurance data, I would be like —- terrible domain, but it is health and data. I do not know. It is good enough. ThinkLocal. I like ThinkLocal because I do not remember who, but there was somebody that said act global, think local, or something. I do not know. There was a big company.
Michael: Think global. Act local.
Andrew: Okay, so the opposite, but the opposite could stand true as well. And ThinkLocal. It could be do good locally. I do not know. It has plenty of purposes. I like it. Again, it strikes a cord.
Michael: One of the phrases that you typically have is buy local. Like with Amazon and all these multi-glomerates coming in, people are trying to keep the mom and pops operating by buy local.
Andrew: Particularly food as well. So, think local like in terms of agriculture. I like it. I think that is a great name and it is going to sell for ten, 15, 25 thousand dollars.
Andrew: Five years that name sells for sure.
Michael: Got you.
Andrew: You are going to get ten to 25 for that name.
Michael: Yeah, all right.
Andrew: Nothing is for sure. I particularly do not like VeganPizza, despite my wife probably having three cookbooks. I just do not. The pizza shop is never paying you more than 250 dollars or five hundred dollars for that domain. And then vegan pizza. I do not know. I think it is still just too nice. I do not know. Vegans are cheap.
Shane: You are right. I do not like vegans that much.
Michael: He just insulted all the vegans in the world. Come on.
Shane: I met his wife and she seems very nice, so I changed my ideas on vegans themselves too.
Michael: All right. What else do you like or not like? Give me one more.
Andrew: I do not like Hoodwink too much just because it is negative. It is like you got screwed. You got hoodwinked.
Shane: That is a move, right?
Andrew: I sort of want to like it just because it is sort of fun, but it still means you got —-.
Frank: I like it for like a rip-off report type thing, but then at the same time, it is hard to spell.
Shane: What was the name of the movie? Hoodwink.
Michael: I do not know.
Shane: Come on. You guys are not kids.
Andrew: I like that three-letter .ORG as well. IAI. Artificial intelligence is definitely very, very important and hot topic. Not going to be a trend. Going to be very much a part of the future, particularly as it pertains to the Internet. So, I like AI. IAI can be some type of meaningful and important organization. There is probably just a high probability of an organization being called IAI over the next decade, and you will probably get ten to 25 grand for that name. Ten to 15 is probably more likely with that.
Michael: Yeah, all right. Thanks, Drew.
Andrew: You will probably buy it for a grand.
Michael: You would buy it for a grand.
Andrew: Yeah, I bet you, you pick this up for a grand. 15 hundred bucks.
Michael: Yeah, all right. Thanks, Drew. Frank, let’s go over to you. What do you like on the NameJet list and why?
Frank: I have just got to sell a domain name using the Uniregistry market. 20 grand sale right here on the show. Boom.
Michael: What was it?
Michael: It is like downward dog, but it is even better because it is up.
Frank: It is like a meme thing.
Andrew: That is a nice, little name. I like that name.
Shane: You know the joke, don’t you? The joke is this. Hey, do you guys like updog? And they go: “What’s updog?” You go: “I do not know. What’s up with you, dog?”
Frank: That is it! That is the thing. That is the meme thing.
Michael: And you just got 20 thousand dollars for a kid’s joke.
Frank: Right here live on the show on the app, yeah, so that is pretty cool. So, that is real. I cannot fake that.
Frank: So, every updog has his day.
Shane: What’s up, dog?
Frank: Okay, man. So, look, my Internet here in Amsterdam will play along. I am going to try to get through this one.
Andrew: Oh, you are in Amsterdam right now?
Michael: Yeah, he is like around the corner from you.
Andrew: Oh, you are like two hours from me. I am in Dusseldorf.
Frank: Yeah. I was just in Dusseldorf. I was there this morning.
Andrew: Wait, really?
Frank: Yes, we stayed at the Hyatt last night.
Michael: You guys need to text more often.
Frank: It was unbelievable. I was overlooking the tower and the Frank Gehry stuff downtown. I was in that area.
Andrew: Yeah, super cool. Those three buildings. One is brick, one is with metal, and then one is white acrylic.
Frank: Where that Frank Gehry dome thing under by the new harbor.
Andrew: That is called the harbor area of Dusseldorf. You got Monkeys. The bar there. The restaurant bar. You have got some funky stuff down there. Nespresso. My wife used to work in Nespresso right in the harbor area there.
Frank: I actually accidentally parked in the Nespresso parking spot overnight. Okay. So, I do not like the numeric one. The 26799, because you have got to spend 32 hundred to make 33 hundred. It is going to sell for what it is going to sell for and you are not going to get a whole lot more. It is purely commodity. I do not know what they are using them for over there in China. I get that they have value, but it is purely (Unclear 1:04:24.1) and for how long who knows at what level, so I do not like that one.
CollegeRankings. I like that because I could see the kids. Although the singular gets in the way, CollegeRanking, but I like that because I am telling you I am starting to look at colleges for the kids and I thought how come there is no CollegeRanking.com. And I actually had that thought and this is the phrase I use to describe it.
Michael: You are going to go pick it up, aren’t you?
Frank: I will put a bid on it because we are all talking about it and it is going to go crazy, so I probably will not, but that is the true story. So, DailySoup. Same reasons you guys all talked about. The talk show. It is a daily mélange of stuff and I see the value there. Like it. You could get into some trademark trouble. Do not want to spend like two or three grand only to have somebody send you a CD from Bravo or whoever saying you have taken the rights to our show, and then you have to spend another five or ten grand defending it. That minimizes your return, so I would steer clear of that one.
Like the FTP.net. We sold CDN. ContentDataNetwork.net. Half a million bucks. So, these .NETs that are really short and make sense make sense. They are good names to have, and so I like that one. Dido GreenCleaner. Like that one a lot. Solid name. Can do a lot with it. All the foregoing reasons you guys already talked about.
Michael: What would you ask on GreenCleaner if you owned it, Frank?
Frank: I think I would go for like 20 grand or maybe 30 grand, 28, and then try to settle in the 20s.
Michael: And you think like a cleaning company or a brand would pay 20 to 30K.
Frank: I was thinking a bottled substance of some kind.
Michael: Yeah, a product.
Shane: That is true.
Frank: HealthData. Really like that one for, again, all those great reasons. I could just see my name in front of it. Frank@HealthData. That is a great way to pick a domain name. Can you picture your name at the front of it with an at symbol? If you can, chances are somebody else can too and really wants it for that reason. So, always look at it through that optic. Hoodwinked. I kind of like it for the rip-off report reason I chimed in on earlier, but it is hard to spell. Does not mean the same to every culture. It is just one of those, so it is a bit of an oddball, and again, you are not going to get as big a return based on that, so might want to steer clear of that one.
IAI.org also I am in. Short. Some group somewhere is going to want it. If this one runs up over a thousand bucks, I am probably out because, again, you might ten grand. You might have to warehouse it a long time and hold on to it to get your money back or get any money for it in return. So, Lipids. I do think a drug company might buy it. I think you might be a longer way out. It does not just roll off the tongue, but it is only a matter of time before tomorrow somebody discovers. There are only so many biological input things in your body that cause all kinds of good and bad —- to go wrong and right. So, a name like Lipids. You buy that. It is one of one hundred. It is only a matter of time before it is the front page of CNN and lipids are all the talk of town and now you have got lipids and lucky you.
Shane: How about Frank@Lipids.com? I do not like it.
Frank: No, it does not work that way. It is a good domain for a drug. People are talking about the new drug. Zinolike or something, and they are like oh, it is all about the lipids. And you watch on CNN. Dr. Sanjay Gupta on CNN tells you how important these lipids are to get under control. So, every lipid has its day. Every dog has its day. Every updog has its day.
Shane: Clearly today is updog’s day. Yeah.
Frank: Updog. PerformanceMedia. I like that one too. Again, if it is going to go more than a few hundred bucks, you might want to focus your few hundred bucks elsewhere because the return on capital might not be big enough to offset the cost of warehousing it.
Michael: Now, there is also a .MEDIA that just came out, Frank. Do you think about that when you look at PerformanceMedia.com versus Performance.Media?
Frank: That sets a really nice benchmark though because you have got to know the folks that have Performance.Media are not letting that baby go cheap. So, the fact that PerformanceMedia.com is out there, it is a nice benchmarking mechanism to that. I did not even mention it. I did not even make the connection. I am starring right at it. I am in the business. That goes for Vegan. The guys who own Vegan.Pizza are going to hold out for like 50 grand for it, so it kind of sets a bit of a floor to the .COM. So, I really like that one.
Then going back up, ThinkLocal. That is a movement of all kinds of movements. That is a buy your food locally. That is a fuel saving thing. Think and shop locally, so you do not go all the way across town. If we ever get into an oil shortage – it does not look like it right now. One day’s, (Unclear 1:08:54.1) could come around again, where oil gets to be one hundred dollars a barrel and then we are all going to be thinking about locally. Do it locally to save money and do not drive across town.
So, this is a nice, little list actually. When I first looked at it against the previous list, I looked at it and I thought no, this list is not so good. But as you kind of look at it, you are like these are not half bad. There is money to be made here. It is just all the money is made in the buy. Buy low, sell high.
Michael: But here is one of the questions that I have, and I talk about this on a lot of the DNA groups; that these names are not going for like 50 bucks, which are sort of entry level. They are going for five hundred bucks, six hundred bucks, and it is being pushed out of the newer investor level. Are any of you guys seeing that or feeling that also on NameJet, that some of these better domains that are the warehoused ones, the ones that you hold for a few years that you sell for a ten bagger, as Drew will say, are going for more nowadays? Do you feel it or not?
Andrew: I am getting priced out of a lot. The mid-level. The small names. The mid-level names. The names that I would normally be like yeah, I will throw a hundred bucks on that. I will throw two hundred bucks on that. I am getting priced out of most of those, but when a really unique name comes on that I want to break out the work chest for, then there is still only a handful of people that are competing for those names. But yeah, the names that are like most of these, yeah, probably will go above what I am willing to pay for most of them.
Frank: It depends on the day. I have seen days where man, I have got those cheap. I could not believe it. Every day is unique. Some days there are deals out there and some days there are not. It is not the end of the world if today you cannot get a deal on NameJet or GoDaddy auctions. Tomorrow there could be a flood of them and then you are sitting there with your cash and somebody else has spent it. So, there are more than enough names to go around. The key to this business is persistence. You do not buy in one day. If you are not doing this every day at some level, this probably is not for you. You are not going to stick with it.
Consistency. Every day a little bit. One to two names here. Sell them. Two names there. Plow ahead. Make it work. If your heart is not in it, you have got to find something else that your heart is in.
Shane: The only reason I am sitting here on the panel is we all know I have another job, but I have never spent less than two to three hours a day every single day for seven years. I mean there has not been a day. That is three hours per day. It is hard. I mean there is family. There is other things to do. You are either going to do this for a living and put a lot of pressure on yourself, and a lot of people say well, I will take another job, but you have got two jobs. This is not a hobby. You are not playing Ping-Pong or going out and playing golf. You have to stick with it every day. Auctions are every single day.
Frank: Yeah, but that house is looking a little bigger in the background than the first time you were on the show.
Shane: There is only two bedrooms to it.
Frank: Fast-forward like five years and Shane is like you have got to do it every single day and he is sitting on like a golden throne.
Frank: It is really hard work.
Michael: It is hard work, and then the one day comes along like Berkens and you are like I am out. I am selling all to GoDaddy. That is it. I am done.
Frank: Yeah, and what is he doing?
Michael: He is buying more on NameJet. He is pissing me off.
Shane: Now he has got a big moniker to go against us.
Michael: Yeah, exactly.
Frank: Calls me out of the blue the other morning. Says did you know that My.Mom is for sale on your site as a premium, and I was like —–, I thought we had that in the registry reserve bucket. And I go is it really available and he goes it was.
Frank: So, there you go. Honestly we had like a hundred registry reserve names in .MOM. Like WWW.MOM. COM.MOM. Things that people might type. My.Mom is on our super reserve, never let it go list, and somehow we let it out. And it had a ten-thousand one-time fee on it with a reasonable price renewal, and he bought it. I am not taking it back. It is his, but a retired man does not do that. Nobody leaves this business. I have never seen anybody totally leave this business except (Unclear 1:13:28.6), and I think he still keeps in touch with a little bit.
Michael: Yeah, once you have got it in your blood.
Shane: Yeah, you do not get away.
Andrew: This is the greatest business on earth. The single greatest business on earth. We could be anywhere in the world. We are all over the freaking place.
Frank: Shh. Keep it down, man. Keep it down. There are people out there.
Andrew: Hey, look, I am of the mindset the more people that come in, the more liquidity there is, the higher the prices go. There are only so many names. These are scarce things. Regardless of what people think, these are scarce. These are scarce assets.
Michael: And you have got your good ones. I tell Aaron this.
Andrew: (Unclear 1:14:08.1). That is a good name. Bring in the money. Bring in the people.
Michael: Yeah, and in 13 years, when our youngest goes off to college and we are like sitting on the beach, drinking our mai-tai’s, I want to do what Rick Schwartz says. I am going to look at my phone and I am going to see what offers come in for my domain names and I am going to decide what I want to sell and what I do not want to sell, and that is going to be the life.
Shane: Yeah. I mean we are taking a vacation to Hawaii and my wife said oh, the plane tickets are a thousand dollars. I said a thousand, let’s go first class. I am going to lower my price on my offer on this one, and instead of taking six thousand, I will take four thousand, sell it, and I give her the money. I mean what other industry can you do that to just have this thing? It is hard work though. I do not want to ever pretend that it is not because there is a lot of risk. I have got a lot of shitty names that I invested in that I am not going to get my money back for.
Michael: Right, we all do.
Frank: Well, you might. Put them all at buy it now and the industry might.
Shane: You have to work at it. I said this the other day in the blog. I am not doing as well these last two weeks because I am not making the effort. There is no other reason. I have not put forth the effort, so I am not pretending. I will. Just my effort went into selling this (Unclear 1:15:19.3) petunias.
Michael: But the effort is you are bringing in in-bound. Frank, all of your sales come in-bound, right? It is not like you are doing outbound sales to try and sell your domain names.
Frank: We follow up on all the in-bound leads.
Michael: Follow up, but those were in-bound to begin with.
Frank: Yeah, that is exactly right. We do not call people.
Michael: So, if the in-bounds do not come in, yeah.
Frank: Yeah, we do not outreach, although we never say never. Anything that drives sales (Unclear 1:15:45.5) up, but no, I mean at this point we are not doing any of that. We have got a well of leads that come in. I think we take a lot of our leads for granted internally as an organization. We have for a long time. And now we are taking it more seriously because we want to lean forward. We have got a big inventory. We want to turn volume. It is the nature of the beast. Now, we could not fold our arms and yeah, we could reel it all back in and then sell a lot less, and power of no as I used to call it. Just fold your arms and say nope, nope, nope. Eventually somebody will lay down and say I have got to have the name.
I do not know. People would write us back and say we have got them to 28. You are at 38, right? I would right back PON and yeah. Power of no. We are not doing it. And now obviously we want to turn that volume, but to Shane’s point, you have your foot on the accelerator and you have the luxury of saying I am going to kick up the volume or I am not going to kick up the volume, depending on how you feel and your cash flow needs. We have got a good size ship to run. We need more fuel for the fire. We want to generate revenue and make sure we have big months. We are going to say yes to more deals. It just depends on where you are and what you want to try to accomplish.
Shane: Can I make an offer on the last day of the month like my car dealer? Is that what you are telling me?
Frank: Actually we do close more deals at the end of the month. There is a natural bias because people want to close deals at the end of the month. There is a natural bias that I can tell you, where in the last week of the month we add 30 percent to our monthly sales volume.
Andrew: Yeah, but it is also your brokers, right? Brokers are hungry at the end of the month. They want to make their numbers, so they are going to get a little more aggressive. They are going to follow up a little more. They are going to work a little harder. They want to close deals and get —- done at the end of the month.
Frank: Yeah, that is a really great people. You should come over here and run all this because I am not looking at price.
Michael: All right, Sherpas, we are at the end of today’s show. I would like to give you guys an opportunity to share anything that you want about names you are brokering or selling, deals you are offering, opportunities you are looking at, or new features you are getting ready to roll out. Let’s start with you, Drew. What is going on?
Andrew: So, really quick, we were talking about NameJet in any given day. I actually did not want to interrupt Frank before, but yesterday we got a domain that I just backordered thinking okay, yeah, when that goes to auction, I want to bid on that. Suddenly I had an email from NameJet yesterday. Boom. 69 dollars. I got it on a backorder. A (Unclear 1:18:12.5).ORG, which is Oil.org. Literally Oil.org in Spanish. (Unclear 1:18:17.3).
Andrew: 69 bucks, and I was just like wow, what is going on. I have not gotten a name like that to just pop on a backorder in a long time.
Frank: I wish I spoke Spanish.
Shane: Not to get too far off, but what do you think about Gato.com? It will be done by the time this airs, but it is up for sale today.
Andrew: Yeah, I am the high bidder right now.
Michael: Are you really? So, Shane and I were just talking about that one before the show started.
Andrew: I got that —- open on my screen. I want that.
Shane: I told him I had it going up to eight grand, and then I thought doesn’t it mean.
Andrew: And then I dropped ten on it, and now I think I have got outbid. I have to go back to it.
Frank: I am out. I am not in on that. I have got a lot of big Spanish inventory. Does not turn real well. It gets a lot of inquiries.
Andrew: The short ones.
Michael: The short ones. Brand.
Andrew: Yeah, the ones that are shorter, ubiquitous. Gato is just about. Particularly thank you to El Gato becoming so infamous. Everybody knows the word gato now.
Shane: And I sold Vato for 12 grand to Sahar I think.
Frank: Oh, cool. Cool. A lot of ways to do it. I am not the burning bush.
Andrew: Okay, so back to the shout-out. We have got some domains running at NameJet. Continuation of or auction. Just keeping some inventory moving. And then I am going to give a shout-out to my team over at Ganjapreneur. We just raised a few hundred thousand dollars in like 12 hours.
Michael: Yeah, congratulations.
Andrew: We are going to be hiring a bunch of new people and taking that thing to the next level, and those guys have done a great job, so shout-out to them. That is all I have got.
Michael: And that is your boy, Noel, over there, right?
Andrew: That is my boy, Noel. He was on this show.
Michael: He is a past Sherpa. If you want to see what Noel was doing before Drew stole him away to go run Ganjapreneur.com, a B2B media play in the ganja
Andrew: Legal marijuana space.
Michael: Legal marijuana space. You can go watch Noel Abbott. Great interview talking about his marijuana related domain names as that industry was just burgeoning. Yeah, thanks, Drew. Frank, anything you want to talk about, give a shout-out to, or mention?
Frank: I cannot believe we got through all this with the WiFi trouble and the blackouts.
Michael: I know. You have a great connection.
Frank: Made it. What do I want to talk about? Well, I have been about our product, Uniregistry, and first the registrar I mean is sick. I mean really now. I was using it. I was trying to run ten thousand renewals in a click. Bang. Bang. Bang. Hit the renew button. I mean I remember clearly, guys, calling up, like I was on the first guys to VPN privacy. I had an RSA token. It would come out of sync. I would call up my registrar. I would be like my RSA is out of sync. I would have to get them on the phone. It would always be on a Sunday invariably. I would have to wake these guys up. It would always be at night after I have had a glass of wine. Skipped a sudden (Unclear 1:21:31.5) renew name. All of a sudden all hell is breaking loose. Nothing works.
The other night I went through. I went renewed ten thousand names. I took all my recent acquisitions that I bought at auction. I gift them out. Change the name servers. Combine them. Put them in the market. Tried to see which ones I did not have for sale that did not have prices. Went over to Market Side and the market was kind of clunky. A little bit buggy when we started out. Obviously growing pains as we just came out a month and a half ago and quite late. Now I am happy to report it is getting pretty sweet. Every day I am seeing improvements. I have got some other users who are writing me. I see it up in daily changes every day. Names getting out of the Uniregistry market. Nice, little feeling.
And I think that we are going to get the checkout more refined. It is going to become more slick. We are going to get other distribution partners in there, although right now you could sell of your own inventory, like your own lead stream from type-ins that you get. You would be amazed. And I am telling you. Straight up I think it is the best little piece of kit that is or will be in this industry for probably the next five years. Nobody is doing anything like it or trying anything. I am very, very proud of the team for building what they have built and I am looking forward to seeing it become its own. It will all be mobile in Android and iOS by September. At the latest, the Android piece for the market now. The RAR in Android come in just a few weeks. We are just weeks away from the registrar app being Android.
So, I mean there is some really sick kit coming, and there is one big surprise coming late in the year. We are working on a new product naming related that will change quite a bit. I am always very enthusiastic about our product offerings. This one in particular is something I have been working on for a very long time. I have not talked about it much because it involves utilizing external partners, and I just signed a letter. It was a big Champaign cork pop when we signed it, going ahead to bring out something that will further unlock the value of your domain names in the mainstream. This is a partnership deal with a very mainstream entity that when I tell you about it, you will get it. I am leaking it now a little bit, but when you see it, it is something that will help everybody no matter what name space they are in, no matter what registrar they are at.
Frank: This will be something finally where it is not just a Uniregistry world. If you are a diehard GoDaddy and you want to stay at GoDaddy, this is something you can do with us that will be very interesting to you. I can assure you.
Michael: So, we are going to wait until September to hear about that or is that going to be announced soon?
Frank: I will announce it. I have got one more contract to sign. When I sign that up, I will probably announce it and talk about what it is to tell you what it is. It is just one of those things where as other people develop towards it, it is kind of like oh okay, this is something I can get behind. And as people kind of work towards it, you will understand immediately what it can do for you.
Frank: It is a nice, little thing that will make your domain names more valuable no matter where they live.
Frank: Yeah, so it is exciting. It is an exciting time in the industry.
Michael: Congratulations. Looking forward to hearing about the details of that, Frank.
Frank: Yeah, thank you all. Thank you, Michael.
Michael: Shane, let’s go over to you. Anybody you want to give a shout-out to or talk about?
Shane: I will say this is how I described Uniregistry is doing it. They are kind of like South Korea. They got in a little late, but their infrastructure is so much better than everybody else’s because they got to do it right at the end. And I moved over my most valuable names. I started moving them over. It is easier. I like the toggles, I like the buttons, and I like to be able to email somebody and say this does not work or this does not actually get a response. So, maybe it is personal. I do not consider myself an insider, but anyway, I do like it.
Frank: Thank you. We respond to everybody the same.
Shane: There is actually product behind it here. It is really good to use.
Frank: Thank you. That means a lot, bud.
Shane: I kept some of the things I registered there, but I started moving all of my stuff over there just because I am busy. I want to be able to just click a button. I do not want to ask questions. I want it to be right there in front of me. I am not here to be the guy that is the big billboard, but it is a true fact. Once things get easier and it is easier to come back and do it right the second time, and he is getting that shot.
Michael: Yeah, definitely.
Frank: Yeah, I just said I mean it is a lot of work. It was a lot of work to get it right and it is hard. We had the map. I know exactly what I need, so I have got the map, and it still was like getting it right is a ballet because you need frontend guys who are really passionate. I mean there is movie in there. I am telling you. Getting a product like that right, all those personalities to bring it to life. Nobody could do it alone. And there is huge expenses.
Shane: Well, your designers were relentless. I know that. I walked through the form. My God, if it is one pixel off, you do not hear about the end of it. So, anyway.
Frank: Well, there is still obviously room for a lot of improvement, but the way it collectively does what it does is pretty slick. I mean it really lets me do what I do at scale and yeah, sorry to go on and on.
Michael: No worries.
Frank: I really am proud of it.
Shane: And I just want to send a thanks to the guys I work with every day because, again, I say it is busy. Travis and Aaron and Josh. They do a great job. They work hard. I like to work with people that smile and have a good time, like we are doing here on the panel. I mean those guys. Every time I talk to them, I laugh. I mean it is just an enjoyable thing to work with and we share the same passion. We think a lot alike, but yet we think different. And when you work with people that think different, we all get better. So, you have talked to Aaron. We share a lot of the same interests, but he thinks a little different, Josh is definitely different, and Travis, and I really enjoy working with them. So, thanks to them for making this more fun.
And people that come to the site I think will see the different personalities, and I think they enoy the personalities. Once they came to the show, they are like this guy is who I thought he was. He is. Josh talks a million miles a minute, just like when he writes. So, anyway, thanks to those guys. Visit the site. That is what I do. That is who I am. So, I always appreciate when people come.
Michael: Yeah, DomainShane.com or DSAD.com. Either way, go sign up for the newsletter. I want to give a shout-out to my boys over at Efty.com. Doron and Lionel. They just launched a new feature. We are getting a ton of people signing up for our landing page system that helps you quickly throw up landing pages that offer your domain names for sale. You can write a short paragraph. Unique selling propositions. Put in a buy It now with escrow. Put in a minimum offer, so you are not inundated by lowball offers coming in. And over the weekend, they just rolled out a verification system for the inquiries coming in because now that we are getting bigger and more DNS records are coming in at Efty, we are getting hit by more spam as well, so that whole process is hopefully solved. And go try it out if you have not.
We have a new onboarding system that you just type in your email address and then we will look up your entire portfolio for you and ask if you want to bring them all in to Efty.com. And if you have tried it in the past and you were not sure that the onboarding was really working well and you want to give it another shot, we would love to give you another shot. Email Ask@Efty.com and we will definitely set you up with that. And if you did not read in the disclosures at the bottom of this page, I am a part investor in Efty.com.
And DNAcademy. Last week, we passed three more students through the evaluation quiz. I love seeing new investors figure out how to value domain names. High value ones. Low value ones. New gTLDs. Old gTLDs. People are coming in. They are getting how to value domain names, which is the crux of the entire industry. If you cannot value domain names and know what are good and what are not good, you cannot become an investor, and that is half the course. And so, DNAcademy. If you are in the Sherpa network, you are watching this show and you want to check out DNAcademy.com, use SHERPAFAN for 50 dollars off either of the basic or the pro level. Yeah, that is my sales pitch for today.
If you received benefit from today’s show, please post a comment and thank today Sherpas. I want to give thanks to Abdullah Alkulaibi for submitting his portfolio and making a generous donation to the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center. Thanks to NameJet for submitting their portfolio and sponsoring that portion of the DomainSherpa Review. And thanks again to our DomainSherpa panel today- Andrew Rosener, Frank Schilling, and Shane Cultra – for sharing their experience and insights.
We’ll see you all next time.
Frank: Very cool, guys. Always a gas.
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