Stop Parking Domains and Build a Real Business – With Adam Dicker

With domain parking revenue dying or dead, how can a domain name investor take their best asset and turn it into a lead-generation business?

Listen in as Adam Dicker, a recent inductee into the Domain Hall of Fame, shares his tactics for spotting opportunities and how he purchased a portfolio of cord blood bank domain names and built a lead-generation business on top of it.

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About Adam Dicker

Adam Dicker, DNForum.com & DCG.comAdam Dicker is the CEO of DNForum.com, the largest online domain name discussion forum. He is also the founder and CEO of Domain Consulting Group, where he manages his portfolio of domain names and develops online businesses.

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Here’s your program.

Michael Cyger: Hey everyone, my name is Michael Cyger. I’m the publisher of DomainSherpa.com, the Domain Name Authority, and the place where you can learn how to become a successful domain name entrepreneur directly from the expert themselves.

You know what we do here. We bring on a successful domain name investor. We ask them to share how they became successful and then we motivate you to do the same in your own area of expertise. And then you can come on the show, give back to others about what you learned and how you became successful.

The big question for this show is with Pay Per Click advertising revenue, dying or dead? How can a domain name investor take their best asset and turn it into a lead generation business? Joining me to answer this question is Adam Dicker. Adam is the CEO of DNForum.com – The largest online domain name discussion forum. He is also the founder and CEO of Domain Consulting Group where he manages his portfolio of domain names and develops businesses. Adam, welcome to the show.

Adam: Thank you very much for having me.

Michael: Adam first of all congratulations on being inducted into the Domain Hall of Fame by the Domain Name Industry Traffic Show last month in Florida.

Adam: Thank you. It was quite an honor to be inducted into the Hall of Fame by my peers and in front of my peers.

Michael: It was great to meet you there in person by the way. Before I bring anybody on the show I usually go to Ron Jackson’s DN Journal cite and I look for their cover story, I look for news than Ron has covered on them in the past and of course you have a cover story from 2003. So I read that cover story and I found one of your quotes very interesting. I’m going to read the quote to you and then ask you a question. You were quoted as saying on my ppc landing pages I only use Google for domains. I have been with Google for years and have been offered double the revenue if I switched to other companies but I have no plans on leaving the company, the company that has been great to me. Do you still feel that way Adam?

Adam: Yes I do. Time is the most proven test and Google has outlasted everybody else that has tried to come on with the ad feed and tried to compete with Google and nobody has been able to compare in revenue at least now to Google. And I am currently still using Google today to park my domains and I am using Frank Shilling’s internet traffic to park them. And I am quite happy with the results.

Michael: Great, so in the show we are going to talk about how to turn a domain name into a lead generation business. What lead generation website of yours do you want to use as the primary example throughout this show?

Adam: I think for today’s purposes we can use USAcordbank.com

Michael: And for those in the audience who have never heard of the phrase cord bank. What is a cord bank and why would somebody want to use it?

Adam: Basically it’s when a woman has a baby there is obviously an umbilical cord and there are benefits to storing that cord blood from the umbilical cord for future use. I believe there are about 50 to 100 different diseases that it can help cure, or play a part in curing if it is ever needed or called upon.

Michael: And so somebody will take that umbilical cord blood and they will put it in a bank and I guess they preserve it somehow in case you need it sometime in the future.

Adam: Yes.

Michael: So with it being a medical procedure I would assume that it has a little bit higher Cost Per Click if one of those cord banks was trying to do advertising on Google. What is a typical Cost Per Click cost on Google for a cord bank that may want to advertise their services?

Adam: From what I’ve seen it starts at about $16 per click. And cord banking itself requires a doctor to oversee the whole process. So it is a costly procedure but it is definitely worthwhile if you ever need that cord blood.

Michael: I ran a query yesterday I think on Google and I think I saw an average Cost Per Click in the US where I am primarily searching of $25. So it is definitely something that has a high Cost Per Click on Google and the Cost Per Leads is probably higher. How did you discover this area of cord blood and decide that you wanted to build a lead generation business in it?

Adam: Just from research. Typically I research a lot of niches and I tend to look for where since parking has gone taint a little bit, quite a bit over the last five years. I think my revenue is about a fifth about three to four years ago. I’ve been looking at different avenues for exploring lead generation and realizing that there are different ways to monetize domains and hooking up with a good partner is probably the best way to do it because you actually remove Google or any third party out of the equation.

Michael: And I can attest to that as well. When I had my previous publishing company I would maybe make $500 off of Google if I put Ad Sense across the site per month which seems like a decent amount but I could receive multiples of that by selling advertising directly to the companies that were buying advertising on Google. So I completely agree with you. What was the actual business that you launched, what was the main domain name that you launched to try and get into the cord blood bank space?

Adam: It was usacordbank.com and then I also decided that there was a profit to be made in Canada so I grabbed canadacordbank.com. And when you want to own a vertical and this was a vertical that luckily for me was not at all dominated or invested in by the domainers or by the domain market. So what I did was I went and also checked out all the fifty states in the US and I was able to register 42 of the 50 cord bank names. So I registered Alabamacordbank.com and Alaskacordbank.com and so on. I don’t know if those were the ones I got but basically you get the idea. I registered the 50 states but then I also registered variations of it. I registered Alabamacordbanks.com, I registered Alabamacordbloodbank.com, Alabamacordbloodstorage.com. So basically I registered about 600 domains and cornered the market on cord blood and cord bank domains and that even includes stem cell and stem cell storage.

Michael: And this is why I love this story so much. You mentioned it to me briefly when we were at Traffic a few weeks ago Adam. And I loved this story because domain investors, a lot of domain investors, a lot of newbie’s like myself think it’s too late to get into the domain game. I might be able to grab a couple of drops here and there but the early visionaries like yourself and Frank Shilling and other people that were just grabbing the pennies from heaven and registering as many domain names as they could between 1995 and 2000. I can’t get into that so I can’t get the good domain names. The reason why I love this story is because here is a great industry that has really high cost per click, cost per lead that was almost wide open in your own words. And we are going to go into specifically how you registered the domain names, how you thought about them, how you thought about the business model and all the details. But let me ask you this: You have been live for just a few weeks now with usacordbank.com and the other websites that you have developed (and I am going to ask you how many you have actually developed of the 600 domain names) how many leads have you been able to produce in the past few weeks?

Adam: Based on being fairly good and somewhat of an expert on SEO I’ve been able to generate about seven to ten per day.

Michael: Seven to ten per day. That is fantastic. So those are people actually going to one of your websites, seeing information on cord blood banks and seeing a contact us form on the right hand side for people looking for more information and filling out that form.

Adam: Correct.

Michael: That is fantastic. And what about the sales to date? Clearly you are generating these leads and you are selling these leads to somebody else. Are you selling them on a per lead basis or are you selling them when that lead actually converts into a customer?

Adam: I have the option to go either way. For me it was far more beneficial to go with it when the customer actually converts into a customer. The revenue that it generates for me is quite high because the cost to store cord blood storage to be honest with you is less than $300. And companies are charging between $1,000 to $3,000 to do it plus they charge an annual fee of $100 to $200 a year to maintain that storage. And the cost to maintain the storage is zero.

Michael: So may I ask you how much you make when a lead converts into a customer?

Adam: Usually about $700.

Michael: So this is just amazing because now people can get an idea if they put a Google Ad Sense on their cord bank site and Google is charging that end customer, the cord bank, $16 to $25 per click through, or $25 per click through you are going to make some portion of that. You are not sure how much. Let’s call it $15. That is the Cost Per Click. Then if you take the leads you can actually sell those to one or more companies that you are partnering with and make some amount of money but then if you partner with a single company you can actually make hundreds of dollars when that lead turns into a customer.

Adam: That is correct.

Michael: That is phenomenal.

Adam: Just for the record Ad Sense only pays you 32% of the Cost Per Click for that keyword.

Michael: 32% that is a great number to know. And how do you know that number off hand?

Adam: I’ve done multiple contracts with Google in the past so I know that is what the number is. If you do a specific contract for Ad Sense for content you can actually get a higher rate but without a contract it is 32% just if you sign up as a regular publisher.

Michael: So out of a $25 Cost Per Click for a core bank that is advertising on Google let’s say, if you have a website and you are putting that Ad Sense ad up there you might make $7.50 of that.

Adam: Which is still good money.

Michael: Which is still good money, right but going up the pipeline and selling the leads or actually partnering with something that we are going to talk about today will produce the most amount of money. It requires more work but you can generate more revenue. And so we are going to dig into how you built that lead generation business but before we do that I want to ask you a few more questions – go into a little bit of background because it is the first time I’ve had you on the DomainSherpa show Adam. How many domains in total do you own and generally how do they shake out by TLD?

Adam: The number fluctuates like with anybody. Week to week I end up buying 600 domains. Like with cord (Inaudible 0:12:42.0) some weeks I buy 5,000 or 2,000 and some weeks I just buy 5 or 10 or nothing. So generally I tend to, as far as owning names, and a lot of them are .coms. The only things that I really invest in are .coms or .cas. And I recommend that people do invest in their own country – the ccTLDs except in the United States where unfortunately the .us was never really backed by the United States.

Michael: Adam we are having a little bit of an audio/visual issue – are you actually plugged into your network on your side?

Adam: Yes I am.

Michael: It could be on my side I apologize. We are just going to move through it and if there is anything that I can’t hear I’ll just ask you to repeat it. I’m sorry. How many domains do you think you own right now?

Adam: About 40,000.

Michael: And you own a great list of premium domain name properties like planets.com, download.net, acronyms.com as well as what I read 20,000 generic .ca domains including limo.ca, md.ca, and girls.ca. What are your favorite domain names right now from your portfolio?

Adam: It is a question that I am asked a lot. And to be quite honest with you I posted a thread recently on DN Forum about what domain you are most proud of. And most for me most people would think it would be DN Forum because it generates the most income but the one that I am the most proud of is downsyndrome.com and it is because I bought it for the right reasons. A buddy of mine that works at Go Daddy his son has down syndrome. I bought the domain, he didn’t put any money into it and I said to him you and I are partners on this domain, build it out in your son’s honor and we are partners from here on in. And since then we have had health magazines want to do articles on it and we have had thousands of parents with kids with down syndrome come to the site and share their experiences and help each other. And I don’t make one cent from advertising on it. I don’t make one cent on the site. We don’t monetize the traffic but I am proud of the fact that it is a way that we can make a difference in somebody else’s life and help them cope with an awkward or a horrible situation that they have been forced to deal with.

Michael: That is a fantastic philanthropic endeavor of yours and I hope other domainers who have the expertise to acquire these fantastic domain names and have some sort of connection to something will also reach out and do that as well. That is a great thing that you are doing there.

Adam: One more little bit to add to this story. The gentleman who I partnered with this site sent me an email last week and he said you know this site is worth a lot more than you paid for it four or five years ago. Are we still partners? And my email back to him was one line and it said ‘My word is my word. We are partners. If this thing sells for $1,000,000 you get half’. And his response to me I think was something like you are a really good friend. And that is all it was. I’ve said it many times I’m not measured in life for what I do or how much money I make or how well I take care of my family but we are measured by how we can make a difference in other people’s lives and that is part of the reason why I did down syndrome and it has turned out better than I expected because we are making a difference in thousands of people’s lives. And it is also why I started DNF College because if we can help people learn more and buy the right domains and sell at a better price it makes our own domains worth more and it helps the industry as a whole. It is just another way to give back.

Michael: Definitely. So prior to your current businesses of DN Forum and Domain Consulting Group you joined iReit (Real Estate Investment Trust I believe is what the acronym stands for) as an executive vice-president. What was your role back in iReit?

Adam: I was responsible for quite a few different things. Monetization, content development… that’s going back about six years. I’d almost have to look it up on LinkedIn myself to see what some of the other responsibilities were but there was quite a bit and I was lucky to work with a good group of people. I eventually left and then I ran into some problems after I left with the Verizon lawsuits and things like that. It was a good group of people and I can’t really remember all the other responsibilities that I had.

Michael: I read at the time that Marc Ostrofsky and a gentleman named Martin, they actually sold their domains to iReit but when you actually joined the company I read at the time you had reported 200,000 domain names and you kept all of your domain names.

Adam: I actually sold a few of them. I think I sold maybe a handful or two – A handful to iReit. They wanted them and I was at a point where the cash flow was very helpful so I did sell some to them. But the biggest mistake iReit had made probably with me was they had an option to buy DN Forum at a very reduced rate. And they didn’t exercise that option and I have been offered ten times that since then for it.

Michael: Yes that is fantastic. I like to do research on everybody that comes on the show and I found DN Forum to be very interesting. And it was started by a gentleman who grew it and then it was sold for a few thousand dollars to another gentleman who you bought it from who actually added the memberships to the site and was generating more revenue. And I believe he bought it for somewhere around $3,000 or $3,500. And then I believe in the domain game (which I haven’t verified the data by another source) you paid $75,000 for it at the time and re-jiggered the membership system where people only pay once. They don’t have to pay a recurring fee every single year. So once you buy into the community you are in for life at whatever level that you buy in for. And can upgrade of course. How are those numbers? Are they accurate Adam?

Adam: I think that they are fairly accurate. I mean I don’t remember exactly how much I paid Greg because now we are going back nine years but it was probably around $75,000 mark.

Michael: And since then you have been offered over $1,000,000 for the website. Is that correct?

Adam: Well over. Closer to $3,000,000.

Michael: Fantastic. So I think that every experience in an entrepreneur’s life leads them along their path. What was it that you took away from iReit that it may not have been the job that you felt the most fulfillment or that you walked away with a ton of lessons learned but what is it that you took away from that experience knowing that has made you the entrepreneur that you are today?

Adam: To be quite honest I’m not sure I learned a whole lot from my experience with iReit. I mean I learned a lot about what not to do. And I got to work with a lot of really good people. But as far as a learning experience I think it was more of the networking and peer integration and becoming friends with some of the people at the company that I still cherish those friendships today. I don’t believe I learned anything about domaining at iReit.

Michael: After iReit you spent a few years as the vice president of Domain Name Aftermarket at Go Daddy. This was when Go Daddy was really setting up their aftermarket to become the powerhouse that we know of today. Was your main responsibility in charge of growing that domain name aftermarket or defining it? How would you characterize what you worked on at Go Daddy?

Adam: That is a little fresher in my mind so it is a little easier to remember. I was in charge of about seven or eight different departments one of which was the auction site, another was the cash parking. I was also responsible for the executive account customers, for the resellers that we have for the domain buy service which is their brokerage host. I was responsible for all of the developers on all of my products and there were a couple others…Domain discount club was another thing that I was involved in. I helped reduce click fraud on our cash parking system. I redid all the templates for all our parking system and I worked with a really good group of people. I mean I have to say that the executive team at Go Daddy is probably the best executive team that I have had the good fortune to work with. They are all good people. I am still in contact with most of them and it was a very good experience for me.

Michael: Do you feel like you had a courtside seat to the inner workings of how the domain name works since you ran and were responsible for so many of those different areas at Go Daddy?

Adam: I think that I should probably write a book called Behind the Green Wall and it would get quite a bit of attention because there are quite a lot of things that go on behind the scenes that people really cannot appreciate and can’t understand. And I know domainers a lot of times complain about some of the Go Daddy policies and procedures but they are there to protect their customers and protect them and to really protect the customers.

Michael: Maybe we will have you on another show. I’ve got four shows planned for you. Maybe that can be another show. We can go behind the green wall. So let’s get back to lead generation. You and I chatted. You have done multiple lead generation businesses, usacordbank.com which we are going to discuss today is your most recent one but you also have limos.ca, you have others. How do you decide which of your domain names you are going to develop into lead generation business and which ones you are going to leave parked with ppc income?

Adam: To be honest with you parking is just a platform that you leave domains at until you decide to develop them out. Most domainers, we buy thousands of domain names with all good intentions that we are going to build them out. But for a business to be successful it has to be developed with a business plan, with a budget, with a marketing plan and with everything else. And to do that it can’t be done with 800 domains to do it.

Michael: I’m sorry you broke up there for a moment. You were saying you need a business plan, you need a budget and you need a marketing plan. So while you have the best intentions for every domain that you buy you are not developing them all, you are actually parking them until you decide what you are going to develop.

Adam: Exactly.

Michael: And how do you make that decision: I’m going to develop limos.ca now.

Adam: First of all as a developer you make nine mistakes for every one site that actually turns out and turns out to be a profitable site. There are many sites that I have tried to develop up over the years that I have not been able to be successful with and they end up back as a parking page because I get frustrated with them. But then you get lucky and you get that tenth site and it turns out to be a highly profitable business and it just keeps driving it. You have to have a passion for the industry. You have to love what you do. I’ve said this before you have to get up every morning and know that you are doing something that you love and when you do something that you love you never actually really work a day in your life. So how to pick out sites: you target industries that there are potentials to earn between $1,000 and $3,000 per referral. I don’t like the flower industry because even if you sell a bouquet of flowers for $50 you may make $5 or $10 and that takes a lot of work for $5 or $10.

I recently had a piece of land that I bought and I had a pool on it. We sold the lot and I had to fill in the pool. And it cost me $8,000 to fill in the pool. So I talked to the pool guy, the guy who filled it in, and he had no internet knowledge and I said what would you give me if I started sending you leads of customers where you do pool fill ins and pool removals? And he said he would give me 20% to 30%. Well 20% to 30% on $8,000 or $4,000 even at 30% at $4,000 you are looking at $1,200. So right away I thought that that would be a good industry to get into and I started to build a lead generating revenue sites for that as well and I have been forwarding him some leads. But there are other good industries like event planners where they get paid $2,000 a pop. There are orthodontists which get paid good money. I mean my son’s teeth cost me about $6,000 for each of them. I am half way done. I have done two out of four. Real Estate is always good for lead generation. You go after a name like Seattlerealestate.com if you can get it or anything close. You hook up with a good real estate agent you trust and you forward him the leads and then if you are getting a percentage of his commission you are getting quite a few thousand dollars. Lawyers is another good one. There are real estate lawyers, intellectual property lawyers, family lawyers, criminal lawyers, they all make good money and they are always looking for new clients. Time shares. People that want to buy and sell time shares there is good money in that. There is good money in private investigators. There are so many industries where if you sit down, some of them you will find by accident others you will find if you just flip through the yellow pages and look at what cost a lot of money as opposed to what cost a little bit of money you can always find a good industry to set up lead generation in.

Michael: So flip through the yellow pages and look for the biggest ads. Those are costing the most. Those probably have the biggest payback.

Adam: Well a lot of times you can also look through the internet and you can type in orthodontists Toronto, because that is where I am based, and you can see if somebody is buying Ad Words they believe in advertising and they believe in paying for leads because that is what they are doing by buying Ad Words. So they are a good person or a good company to approach in such a situation. And it works for any industry but obviously you want to stick to industries that have a higher price tag because like even plastic surgeons are good because they charge quite a bit.

Michael: So we are going to look at the example usacordbank.com. You bought just recently, a month or two ago?

Adam: I don’t even know if it has been a month. Maybe five to six weeks. But it is fairly new.

Michael: And the business model is pretty simple. You saw that cord bank had gained in popularity, that the Cost Per Click was high – $25. That the cost per lead or a lead turning into a customer if you are getting a commission was thousands of dollars (a couple thousand dollars I think you said). And so you thought this could be a good business and then you went to start to look for domain names. What was your strategy when you went to go look for your first domain name related to cord banks?

Adam: Well the first thing was to get a domain name that sounded professional, sounded legitimate and people would readily trust it and would want to store their cord blood with us and trust us with it. And I thought using USA cord blood signified people could take it to mean the American standard for cord blood storage. Or they could not. It is people’s perception. I have a quick story for you that is a funny one. Once I had a receptionist who I was sending a basket of goodies to Google in appreciation for how well they have treated me and I asked her to go look and find me a company in Santa Clara to send the basket. She found a company, she came to me, she put the order through and she had me sign the check. And I asked how you found out that these guys were the best company in Santa Clara and were the most trustworthy. And she said because it said so on their website. So based on that if you build a good professional looking website customers will come to you especially if it is optimized with SEO and it is properly done. And that is what we have tried to do with usacordblood.com.

So I registered usecordblood.com and then I went to look at the 50 states of the United States and I went to register Alabamacordbank.com, Alaskacordbank.com and I found about 42 of them were available. So I registered all of those and snapped them up. And then built that with keywords and then if you click on Alabamacordbank.com or any one of those cord banks you will see that they are the top ten most populous cities in Alabama are also listed there with the term cord bank beside it and they have their own pages and they have their own shots of the cityscapes for each one. I just flipped to it now and I am looking at Birmingham cord bank, Montgomery cord bank and each one of these have their own pages. So the domains get indexed for many terms that they need to be indexed for. I know we have a couple examples in Bing where they are on the front page of Google and they were on the front page of Google in a week and a half.

Michael: So the main domain that you are using is usacordbank.com but then actually you just said usacordblood.com. Do you own both of them and how do you decide whether the phrase is going to be cord bank, cord blood?

Adam: Basically what I did was I took a look at the search term and which was the most popular search term based on searches and I decided to go with usacordbank.com. But I did register all the variations that were available of cord bank, cord blood, cord blood storage and all the other ones that we talked about.

Michael: And when you were looking in the Google Ad Words Keyword Tool do you use the global or do you use USA or do you use Canada? What is your thought process around which search phrase volume to use?

Adam: For me I use the exact search and I use the USA one because I am launching a USA cord bank site. If I was using the Canadian one (which we did do a Canadian site as well) I would use the Canadian search tool.

Michael: Do you use any other search tools when you are looking at sites for volume to determine how the phrases are going to be?

Adam: Yes to be honest with you I use a $29 program called Traffic Travis. And it allows you to pull the most related searches and it gives you a lot of information on those keywords including the Cost Per Click and the exact search and the broad search of those keywords. So yes I do use other tools as well.

Michael: Great tool. I haven’t heard of that. I’ll have to go look at it. So you bought 600 domain names just a month or two ago, something like that, the business has been up for a few weeks. What was your strategy behind usacordbank.com and then having these hundreds of other websites? Are they going to be separate websites unto themselves? Will they redirect to a page of the main website? How are you going to work the main site versus all these other domain names?

Adam: They will actually redirect to a page within the website. So if I do own Alabamacordbank.com it will redirect to the Alabama page and so on. And I also registered the major cities across the US like New York cord bank, Boston cord bank, Chicago cord bank and Seattle cord bank and things like that. I was surprised that there were so many available. And it is not often that you find an industry that hasn’t already been dominated by domainers. But there still are quite a few out there and going back to one of your original points anybody that says it is too late to get into this game, there are no good .coms available hasn’t done enough research.

Michael: That’s right. So you are just going to do a 301 redirect from Alabama cord bank to usacordbank.com/Alabama-cord-bank.

Adam: Yes.

Michael: Even though the power of the domain name Alabamacordbank.com might get that website higher in Google or Bing for that phrase than a web page on usacordbank.com?

Adam: Yes because I’m happy with the number of leads that have started to flow in. I haven’t redirected any of those pages yet so any leads that we are getting right now are all off usacordbank.com and canadacordbank.com. Once I start to redirect those pages I think you are going to see those leads go from seven to ten a day to much higher.

Michael: Just from the type in traffic.

Adam: Well from search traffic and type in traffic. There is some type in traffic because some of those are parked pages and I am noticing that there is some type in traffic. And you get people from all over the states. I mean the last lead we had came in from Michigan. All over the states people are getting more educated. But the other part of this is to partner up and educate ob/gyns and hospitals and get them to pass out pamphlets and things for you to get the miracle of cord blood storage. It is actually a viable service. It is something that is good for the parent – it’s good for the baby. If they have the money to do it and it is something that I know is a service. It’s not like I am selling them something that they won’t be able to use or will never use and it is just useless and I am just trying to sell something. I feel good about it.

Michael: It is not like you are trying to pull one over on a customer. You are marketing exactly what these doctors are selling and it is a viable medical procedure.

Adam: And there are people who need that cord blood and it saves lives. So I feel good about being in this industry.

Michael: So one more question regarding the domain names. If you put Alabamacordbank.com and you 301redirect that to the web page at usacordbank.com will Google list that website higher in the index or because it is a redirect they will just not list it in their organic search results?

Adam: To be honest with you I’m not sure whether they will or they won’t. I do know they are indexing all of the pages that we currently have now and we have got over 500 pages so far just for the states. I’m banking on type in traffic as well, not so much the searches for Alabama cord bank and Louisiana cord bank because they are going there now. So that is not going to change.

Michael: So right from the beginning you decided the business model was going to be that you were going to take Google out of the equation. You were not going to build up a website for Ad Sense. That you were actually going to collect the lead, partner with another company and distribute those leads to them for a price.

Adam: Yes.

Michael: Now if I go to the sites I actually do see some Google Ad Sense listed there so you are actually getting benefit from two different perspectives there. You are putting up the website, you are putting some Google Ad Sense there so you are getting some 32% of the Cost Per Clicks form those Google ads like you had mentioned. But the main emphasis of the business is you want to drive people to the contact form so they fill it out so you can give that to your partner.

Adam: Yes because $750 is far better than $15. So ideally I’d rather have a customer come and fill out my contact form than I would just have them click on another company’s Ad Sense ads.

Michael: So you had this ideal cord blood, you’ve got your spreadsheet of all the states, you have got your spreadsheet of all the major cities and you tacked on cord bank to all of those so you have Seattlecordbank.com or Alabamacordbank.com. You registered 600 domain names let’s say, how did you find a partner that would pay you the money? How did you connect the rest of this business plan? How did you go about finding a partner? How did you go about making sure that partner was a viable partner and that you could trust them?

Adam: You do a lot of due diligence when you find a legend partner in a business that you are in and invest $5,000 up front on domain names. And I had many different choices. There are certainly leaders in this field that I could have used that would have paid me $200 referral fee which seems to be a standard for customers like this or I could go direct and find one of the smaller banks and turn them into a large bank. And it is very easy to find somebody who is small who wants to be big and wants to be the king of the industry and become the kingfish and with the promise of leads and the actual leads. What I tend to do is, and I did this similarly with cord blood, is I send them a lead first and I don’t ask for anything in return. So that they know that I am legitimate and I am not a chain puller and I am not there to waste their time and I am there to give them qualified leads. And I find when you give people business it gets them more interested and you have their attention and they realize that they will get more leads from you. I am asking for nothing up front for the first three to five leads that I send them. And they make money. And if they make money then they are going to want to continue to make money and they are going to continue to want to work with me.

Michael: Definitely. So you bought 600 domain names, you build out the main site, you put up the contact form, no partners in the equation at all. You put it up, it’s getting indexed by Google, you are starting to see some traffic by Google and Bing, you are starting to get some traffic and then bam you get your first lead, you get your second lead, you get your third lead. Then you go to a potential partner and you say here is what I can do for you. If you want to be a larger company I can deliver you leads if you pay me for the leads. Is that what you did?

Adam: Yes that is basically what I said. I created the relationship. I told them what I wanted for these leads. But you have much more bargaining power once you have given them five leads and it made three or four sales. I don’t have to call them back. They call you ringing your phones. And then I let them stew a little bit and I say I’ll think about it and we will see. And I will talk to other companies. But at the end of the day you want to hook up with somebody who is small who has dreams of being big and you feel you can trust. I mean in any new relationship like marriage or anything else it takes time to build up trust. And you have to build up a trust relationship with the cord bank that you select or with whatever other company and any other lead in business that you do. Bu the minute they screw you, you have full control. I have full control and I just cut off the pipe and I send the lead somewhere else. So there is no benefit to them to screw around. All the books are public. We formed a company together. We are both on the books for it and it is good.

Michael: How did you first figure out a company that was small enough to listen to you but big enough to be able to handle the leads that you were taking?

Adam: You find one of the big companies. And then you find out who their little distributors are and then you take one or all of those little distributors and you offer them the option to become big. And that is really what it is. If you have got companies who have, maybe they have six different cord banks or eight different cord banks, you just need one to grab on and say yes I’m interested in not being a small fish anymore. And I am interested in not being given $200 per lead I am interested in getting the $750 like you are.

Michael: But each of these businesses is actually a geographic business right? So a cord bank in Seattle may not be affiliated with a cord bank in Palm Beach, Florida. Do you need to find somebody that has a network?

Adam: No ideally you need to find generally people, because it is in the United States, it doesn’t matter where the cord bank is. People prefer it not to be in California because of earthquakes. They prefer it not to be on fault lines. They prefer it not to be in areas of risk. So northern states tend to be very good. It is already cold up there anyway so it is good for storage. But in general you want to find – people in Michigan have no problem sending their cord blood across the country because they know if they need it, it is just one Fed Ex away and if they are next day delivery anyway no matter where it is.

Michael: So a doctor does the procedure, they pack it up in a cold pack and they Fed Ex it over to this cord bank which is in a specific location.

Adam: Correct.

Michael: Okay I understand. So I understand the business model. You found a smaller player in the market by maybe looking at one of the larger players and seeing who they are affiliated with and contacting them. Did you reach out to them by telephone, by email? How did you originally reach out to them to make that contact?

Adam: I tend to do everything by telephone. I think that email is too impersonal. I think the first inclination by them is to say who the hell are you? And so I have to provide some background on me. They spend probably a day or two Googling me. They find a lot of decent articles on me. And based on that they are interested. They know I’m not blowing smoke. The fact that I have given them four or five leads that turned into sales usually it takes away a lot of their possible concerns. I mean if anybody gave me four or five leads on a business that I was running for free I would tend to be more trustworthy to them because obviously yes they are out for the long term and they realize I was looking for something long term and not short term.

Michael: And when you reached out to them did you reach out to the CEO of the company? Did you reach out to the person in charge of business development?

Adam: It’s a really small company. They start out with I think two or four people in the company. One is a doctor and it was a perfect size for me. Like a Mom and Pop shop. And now they are getting bigger and now they are looking forward to the future. There are many different companies out there like that that can be approached. Cord banking is just one of them.

Michael: And so clearly they are hesitant working with someone they have never worked before and the leads are coming in and they did their due diligence on you by searching. They wanted to figure out how you were able to get such hot leads and give them to them but clearly you were doing due diligence as well. You want to make sure the business is big enough to support them. That they have clear financial so that they can keep track of the leads that are coming through that are actually turning into customers so you can count on your regular commission check. What other due diligence items did you think were important when you were considering which business to partner with?

Adam: A lot of times you want to look for people you can trust. You check on their business. You check out their website. And then you start to build a relationship like you would with any partnership whether they were local or whether they were long distance. You start to get your checks come in. Everything is regular. Everything says it is as it is supposed to be and then it grows from there. I mean you can do your due diligence on strangers and there is not much else you can do and at some point you have to put some trust in the relationship. The whole point of this is I am in control because I have the leads. At any point I can say okay if you guys are screwing me around I’m going to find somebody else to work with. But as long as they keep up their end of the bargain and the cord blood is stored properly, the customers are happy, and the customer service is excellent, there is really no reason for me to look elsewhere for partners.

Michael: So earlier you mentioned that you actually formed a legal entity like in a corporation or an LLC with this company on the new venture. Why go to the trouble of forming an LLC when it might be easier to just have a legal agreement that says you get access to their books for every lead you generate that turns into a customer you get $750 and you get to audit all the customer names against all the leads that you send them to verify that they are paying you the proper amount?

Adam: There is more legal content. Just like with any partnership…

Michael: I’m sorry Adam we are breaking up here.

Adam: Anything else. I wasn’t so concerned with forming a corporation with them as long as I was getting the revenue with the leads.

Michael: I heard you saying you weren’t as concerned about forming a legal entity or corporation or what have you as long as you were getting the money from the leads. Was it their idea to form a legal entity or why did you choose that route other than just an agreement?

Adam: They felt better about forming a legal entity and they wanted all the books to be up and up. They wanted an accountant to go over it. They wanted to basically to have an open book so that I would know that they weren’t cheating me at any point. They also wanted me to know their expenses because obviously their expenses needed to be deducted before any profit was distributed.

Michael: Okay I understand. So you actually doing profit sharing on the leads not necessarily a fixed fee per customer that they received as a result of the leads.

Adam: Correct. And some customers do it for children so they get discounts and things like that and it’s a good business. I do a lot of lead generation for the folks for DNF call postings in there for them where they can make money off of the cord blood storage. I warned them, not warned them, but I exposed them to the cord blood banking industry before I even started building the site. And I said get some cord blood names now because this is a big industry and it is going to get bigger. Just like now is a good time to be buying cloud domains.

Michael: And yet nobody snatched up all of 50 states, or the 40 states that were remaining and nobody snatched up all the cities that you had grabbed.

Adam: Nope I guess not.

Michael: So now that we know how the business was set up let’s talk about the technology. You have one major site up, or a couple major sites that are up right now. You have got usacordbank.com and canadacordbank.com. What is the technology that you are using to run that website and the hundreds of pages that are on that website?

Adam: Sure those are simply Word Press based sites with a theme that I got from a company called StudioPress.com and that was about it. I am lucky enough to have a team of developers, designers and content writers (45 to be exact) that work for me under the DCG.com label and they are generating hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pages, thousands of pages for each one these verticals that I am entering.

Michael: Wow so they are manually developing each page. So if I go to that Alabama cord bank page of usacordbank.com that is a hand generated, hand built webpage.

Adam: Yes and what it is – is it is keyword rich for the top five or six keywords that I have given them and it has also got hand placed meta tags and page titles as well.

Michael: I am looking at the website right now and it is nicely crafted. I think a lot of people lose track of the basics that are required like an H1 tag, and H2 tags where appropriate, using alt tags on the pictures. So if I am on the Alabama cord bank page clearly I see it in the title, I see it as an H1 tag, if I mouse over the picture I see a little yellow tool tip that pops up saying Alabama cord blood bank. So you are doing all the right SEO things which aren’t rocket science but you just need to do consistently across the hundreds of web pages that you have hand developed.

Adam: Yes it is a lot of work. There is no question about it but if you find a vertical that makes money it’s worth putting in the time and the effort to do it properly.

Michael: Are you concerned with where you host the website, this Word Press driven website so that it is not being affected by other websites on the IP address at all?

Adam: Sometimes. I usually keep a close eye on the traffic and as the traffic starts to get too high for a basic coasting account I move it to much more secure servers where I keep DN Forum. And DN Forum is on a very fast – DN Forum is on three servers and I have an extra server on that network that I put sites on that cannot have any lag time or things like that. But right now the site is on a typical Go Daddy hosting account at the moment. But it won’t stay there.

Michael: So as the traffic builds you migrate it to its own server or a shared server that just has more power. For example where do you host DN Forum’s servers? Are they your own servers that you have like a service like Rackspace or in your own center?

Adam: No actually I hooked up with a gentleman who happened to be an expert about six to seven years ago and I have been hosting with him and his company for quite a few years. He does a Veblen maintenance package for me. He does all my Veblen upgrades and he maintains those servers and he has got firewalls and I moved to his servers. So anything serious I put there.

Michael: So how do you typically make that transition point? How many unique visitors or how many page views do you need to display on usacordbank.com before you decide that you want them migrated to something that has more power?

Adam: to be honest with you it doesn’t really go by that. If a site is profitable and it is making money obviously it deserves its own hosting account. If a site is slow and it is not making money it could be because of the host and then I need to move it as well. I have about 10 or 12 servers with Go Daddy some of which run quick, some run slow. They are all only about $14 or I think they are running a special at $9.95 a month. So you get what you pay for. If you want to get a really good high end server for a high end site it does need to be moved to its own server eventually.

Michael: Okay let’s talk about budget for this project. You said that when you got the idea for this project you registered a bunch of domain names, 600 domain names, at let’s say $8 a piece so that is going to be about $5,000, plus you turned your team on to develop the websites. So they developed hundreds of pages for cities, for states, for basically writing the content, finding the pictures, assembling it all together. Clearly you spent a good chunk of change on this. Do you have any idea what you have spent to date on getting this usacordbank.com website up and running as well as the domain names?

Adam: To be honest with you it really hasn’t been all that much. I’ve been running a development team out of India, Nepal and quite a few other countries for the last 15 years. The cost of labor is quite reasonable. We did have to add six web designers for some of these lead generation projects, but the cost is low and anything else is profit here on in.

Michael: So if you had to put a number, just a rough guess on total spent to date – $10,000, $50,000?

Adam: No I would definitely say under $10,000.

Michael: Under $10,000 for getting the website up and running.

Adam: Up and running and like was mentioned at the Traffic Conference last week I think it was, I am trying to remember the numbers, 5% is getting the domain, 15% is building a website but 80% is building (Inaudible 0:55:14.0.) That doesn’t mean that it is going to be profitable or that it is going to be a successful business. The key is to put the effort into making it a successful business, finding the right partners and not ever letting it go making sure that there is somebody on this full time all the time. Monitoring it and looking for new partners or new clients. And it means doing other things. It means going above and beyond. It means going to the pregnancy forums and using usacordbank.com as your signature and posting some relevant posts and adding to the maternity your pregnancy forms that will attract those customers and bring them over to usacordbank.com.

Michael: That is a great transition because that is what I was going to ask you about next is the marketing plan. We’ve discussed the business plan, the budget and how you built it from a technology standpoint, let’s talk about marketing. Clearly we just talked about search engine optimization. You are building the site from the ground up with search engines in mind so you can get the relevant content to the top of their organic search results. But your marketing plan has gone beyond that. How else do you get the word out about the site and get customers to your website?

Adam: Well the first thing you do is you do a search for forums or social networking sites like Facebook or Twitter that mention cord blood storage or cord banks or things like that. And you contribute and you use a signature link back to your site or you do what we did and we did I think five or six articles on the site. You get custom written articles or custom written content. You get those submitted to Ezine Articles which sends them out to about 12,000 different article sites so you get back links to your site immediately. You get credibility. You go out there and you just post relevant information. And you don’t have to spend any money on Ad Words to get a client base. You can if you want to but I don’t suggest spending $25 – $26 a click to do that. There are many other ways through social networking to do that. And you build a page. You build a page for USA cord bank on Facebook and you answer questions and you go to other cord bank or cord blood storage pages on Facebook and you post and things go back and forth.

Michael: I don’t necessarily think of you as a cord bank expert or a cord bank something that you are passionate about and I could be completely misstating it. Clearly there is an opportunity here you feel good about connecting people who are looking for that information but is it actually you that is doing this marketing Adam or do you have somebody on your staff that does it for you whose job it is to become an expert on this topic?

Adam: I am definitely not a cord bank expert. I couldn’t possibly become an expert in every area or field that I invest in domains in. so I rely on other people. I rely on my team. Definitely one or two or three or four of them are. I make sure that they are expert in that area and that they can answer any related questions just as you would for any other business and they go out and they look for terms. And they answer questions and they answer them correctly. But if there is stuff that I don’t know I refer back to the cord bank itself and I get answers because some of this stuff my team may not know and they will forward the question off, get the right results and then we will post the follow up and we will have a link back to USA cord bank. And the more credible answers that you can put on either Yahoo Answers or anywhere else the more people are going to understand that you know what you are talking about and that you are probably a good company to deal with.

Michael: I understand that you have a team in India and you will task somebody on that team to become an expert and they will go and post questions and answers or look for questions and answer them on Yahoo Answers and other groups and discussion forums and try and be helpful and post a signature back to your website or a link to an article back to your website. So that is generally how you are trying to find more customers to come to the website?

Adam: It is the easiest most cost efficient way to do it. The bottom line is women are having babies every day. They are not being educated on why they should store their cord blood or even that it is an option. A lot of people don’t even know it’s available. So even going down to the local hospital here in Toronto or wherever the cord banks are and talking to the nurses, talking to the doctors, offering the doctors a little spiff here and there. Believe me if they are making money off of it they are going to hand out your brochure as well. And it works, it works.

Michael: Do you spend any time yourself on a new venture like this? Do you actually go out and try to learn as much as you can and contribute to discussion forums as well?

Adam: Well I would have to say yes. I mean when you invest in any new industry whether it be cord blood or swimming pool removals or event planners or whatever it is it perks your interest and you are investing money into it so you definitely become more educated. It’s kind of like I never noticed diaper commercials until I had my first child. Your eyes are open more. You notice things on TV and commercials that relate to your life. So as you do this like cord blood banking or any other thing that is out there in the news and keeping up with the news is essential because you want to have the most up to date information and the most up to date equipment. So you do become interested, you create an interest for yourself.

Michael: Let’s say somebody has an interest in cord blood and they come to your website but they don’t actually fill out the form because they are not ready. They are having a child a year from now or eight months from now and they are thinking about it. Do you create any sort of stickiness on the website? They can become a fan, they can follow you on Twitter and see your latest articles or is there an email that you send out on a regular basis? Anything else besides filling out a lead generation form?

Adam: Not yet but there are a few things that we are going to be adding to the site like live help where they can ask questions right away. That is definitely something that is coming. Right now we are still busy designing all the pages.

Michael: So right now you have created your social media accounts but you haven’t necessarily integrated them yet and that is going to be one of the future things that you are going to do?

Adam: Yes.

Michael: How many fulltime people do you say you have…Let’s say you have developed out all the pages on usacordbank.com, how many fulltime people do you think you will have working on it going forward?

Adam: Honestly one or two. That’s about it. It is lead generation. If I was running the cord bank it would be different. But really all we are doing is qualified leads and passing them through. That doesn’t require much rocket science knowledge or any real expertise to take a lead and pass it on to the cord bank.

Michael: And they are just maybe doing some extra design work or making sure that the website is programmed or if you want to add like buttons and doing something like that or doing the live customer service like you may add in the future.

Adam: Yes there will be a lot of that but it is not something that…The good thing about these sites and the one thing that I love about the internet is you can wake up in the morning and you will find three to five leads sitting there and you know you have made money while you slept. There are not very many industries like the internet where you can actually make money while you are sleeping.

Michael: What about legal implication? You are taking people’s information as leads and passing it on to (well in this case your company) but let’s other people are taking your advice and they go generate a lead generation company and they are going to pass it to a third party company. What are the legal implications that they need to be aware of when collecting customer data and sharing it with a partner?

Adam: First of all once they fill in the lead generation form they are contacted (audio skip) did you get that?

Michael: No I didn’t, I’m sorry. Can you repeat that one more time Adam? Once they fill out the form…

Adam: Once they fill out the form we contact them and we ask them if it is okay if we forward their information to the cord bank so that they can communicate with the cord bank directly and they can answer any of their questions.

Michael: So do you physically call each person and ask them that?

Adam: No we just email them back. I mean it certainly wouldn’t hurt us in this day and age with Skype and everything to call them back and that may be something that we do in the future. But obviously most of them on usacordbank.com are American anyway so there is not much toll charges.

Michael: Why go to the extra step of emailing them back and getting a confirmation? Why not just say at the bottom this information will be shared with our partner? Or somebody from usacordbank.com representative will contact you soon and just pass it along in an automated fashion?

Adam: People like to know that their interfacing with people rather than just passing it on. It may take a couple of days. Most of the people that surprisingly enough the demographics of the people that request cord blood storage most of the time are women. And they leave it to the very end. They don’t get involved or ask about it until about the seventh, eighth or ninth month. The last trimester. And so by then they have decided that they want it once they have contacted us. Most people that contact us want it so it is not a hard sell. They have seen the price on the website. It’s $14.95 I think it is listed for. And they know they want it and they fill out the contact form and now they have to go home and convince their husband that it is worthwhile to spend the money.

Michael: So in terms of the business, they come on, they fill out the form, you deliver it to your partner who then contacts them and tries to get them schedule their cord bank procedure and then mail it to them. They probably have paperwork that they have to fill out at the cord bank. How often do you get paid and how do you measure your effectiveness in driving the right…Let me ask you this: How often do you get paid?

Adam: It could be every two weeks or every month. To me it doesn’t really matter because I am not looking at it as a primary income. It is extra revenue. But I would say every two weeks. It will depend, depending on the number of customers. Obviously if there is a huge amount of customers in that two week period or a week period it will go weekly. If it is a small amount then obviously we can wait a month. It is not going to matter.

Michael: And since you have only been live for a few weeks have you had customer leads that you have delivered to the cord bank that have actually converted into customers?

Adam: Yes.

Michael: Excellent. Is it at a number, at a pace, at a frequency that is fast enough for you to be positive about the continued growth of the business?

Adam: Yes. It is one of those industries that the public is not very knowledgeable or educated on yet and it is going to take time but it is going to grow. It is definitely a business that is going to continue to grow and the growth potential for cord blood storage is huge.

Michael: How much time do you estimate you are going to have to spend on this business on a weekly basis going forward?

Adam: A couple of hours. Not that much. I mean I have a gentleman who manages most of my lead gens. He has been working for me for 13 years and we have meetings every morning and I give him the information that I need done and I want changes on the sites and he gets them out and we get them done. And that is the way it goes. And I move on to the next project.

Michael: How do you measure the effectiveness of the leads that you are gathering? Have you noticed that on some of your other lead generation businesses that maybe the quality of leads has decreasing so while the quantity is still there the quality isn’t there and you somehow need to manage that quality?

Adam: It really depends on the industry. For example there is much more competition in limo.ca because people go to six or eight sites to get a quote. Whereas with cord banking it is not that popular as say a limo company. They don’t have as many choices they only have 10 or 12 or 20 choices. And maybe most of them use the same cord bank storage facility. Who knows? Just the pricing is different.

Michael: One more question about the form that is on your page. The form says request more information, you have a field for your name, your address, your phone number, your email address, select a state. You have a message here: Did you find my site through Google? And there is a check box that says yes I did. Why is that important to know?

Adam: It’s not as important as other things because I have Google Analytics on it so I know what they came through. What search engine and what search term. For me the Google Analytics is far more important than that. It is just a check box we put on there because Google was the first one to index the site and we want to measure it. I would guess that most of our leads are coming from Bing and Yahoo.

Michael: And you find that they are coming through Bing and Yahoo because of what reason primarily?

Adam: Maybe the search terms are ranking higher for certain areas and they are finding them.

Michael: So one more question regarding the form. When somebody fills out that form and hits the send message does that show up in somebody’s email inbox that then gets replied to? Does it go into a data base? How do you manage that data of leads?

Adam: Okay the form goes into my email box and then I set it up in a data base and it is tracked. So that when we do forward the lead so we go back to the customer a month or two months down the road. Follow up, make sure they were satisfied with the service and then maybe it was their first child and they are going to have more and that leads to subsequent business. Plus we can also offer them a ‘refer a friend program’ where we give them $200 for referring a friend into us as well which they are happy to. Or we say we will store your cord blood free for the next three years if you send us a customer.

Michael: Wow and so by having that partnership now you can be much more creative in what you offer to that customer. It’s just not a one term purchase. You might get multiple children out of that one customer, a lead that you generated years ago or you could offer discounts to them if they refer friends.

Adam: Generally from what I have seen so far if people are aware of cord blood storage and they have more than one child they store the blood for more than one child. Now I’ve got four kids and I didn’t know about that this even existed or when I had my kids I would have stored it as well.

Michael: You and I have talked about your DNF College, so you have your DomainNameForumCollege.com, DNF.com which you have launched a couple of months ago. And I found it very interesting and I was actually part of your initial offer and I learned a tremendous amount. We discussed this earlier Adam that you wanted to give back to the industry. Why choose an online process to educate people as opposed to putting it in a book or putting it in a video or all the different options that you have? Why did you choose to launch DNFCollege.com online?

Adam: Because I wasn’t looking for it to be a profit center. When I started out in the industry there were people who helped me. They took me by the hand, they helped educate me. There were three or four of them. They did it out of good will. They didn’t do it because they were making any money and I wanted to do the same thing and I give what I got lucky enough to learn over the last 12 or 13 years. It’s a good feeling. It’s nice to get those emails from people saying they sold a domain for more than they expected to or that a domain that they recently bought they have got an offer on. Most people go into this business they spend a few thousand dollars at least that buy all the wrong domains, buy trademarks, they don’t know what they are looking for and they waste their money. I would like to be able to make sure and insure that people are buying higher quality names because the higher the quality the name the more that they are going to sell for and the more sell and the higher quality names that they have the better it is for our business in general and the more everybody’s names are worth in the industry.

Michael: Let’s leave the audience with something that they can expect to learn by attending DNFCollege.com or when they watch a subsequent show (hopefully when I have you back on DomainSherpa) clearly domain name quality is important but what would you say separates individuals within the domain name industry?

Adam: It is the simplest tip and yet the hardest thing for a domain owner to understand and deal with and that is how to manage their portfolio. So the best place to start is how to manage the domains that you already have. So what I usually suggest is they make a list of all the domains in Excel. I tell them to go through any emails that they have had or inquires on domains that they have had but haven’t sold and I tell them that for every domain they received an offer on make those purple in the Excel spreadsheet even if it is a low ball offer. These are keepers even if they make no money because somebody has a need or want for that domain so it is a potential customer.

Then I tell them to gather all their parking revenue over the last 365 days and highlight in green any that made more than their registry. Those are also keepers. Then I tell them to go through the list one more time and pick out domains that they feel have development potential, regardless of revenue, and more those in blue. And those are also keepers. And then I tell them to go through the list a final time and look for domains that you just have a hunch or a good feeling about but have no development potential and earn no money. Some of those they will keep but some of those they will drop. And then once they have done all of that they are usually left with a list of domains and I tell them to take a close look at what is left without a color and ask yourself why you are keeping them. And if you don’t know why, it is time to drop them.

And that is the hardest thing the domainers will ever face because for some reason domainers feel that if they drop the domain somebody else is going to pick it up and turn it into a multi-million dollar business. And that is not always the case. I mean I drop names I’d say every day. I mean we learn from our experiences and we learn that some of the things that we thought were good domains five or ten years ago today just are not.

And then the last bit of advice that I will give is the most important thing that I can tell domainers is that you don’t set the prices. I don’t set the prices on my domain names. Buyers set the price. It’s not what I think it is worth, it’s not what my wife thinks it is worth, it’s not what you think it is worth, it is what the buyer is willing to pay for the domain name. (audio skip 1:15:59.8) and I got $60,000 for it. Other times I thought it was worth a lot more and I was offered a lot less. I had to take a loss on it because I bought it stupidly. So it is all about what the buyer is willing to pay for the domain name. It has nothing to do with appraisals or anything like that at all.

Michael: Right but if you own download.net (which I think you do) and I offer you $40,000 you are either going to accept that or reject that based on what you value the domain name to be. Or what other offers you have received in the past.

Adam: Yes but a lot determines on whether I am a motivated seller or whether I am a non-motivated seller. So if I don’t need your $40,000 I’m not going to sell it to you. If I am in a situation where I do need your $40,000 I may consider selling it for a reduced amount other than what I would consider selling it for normally.

Michael: If you have a follow up question please post it in the comments below. We will ask Adam to come back and answer as many of them as you can. And if you want to follow Adam on Twitter he is on Twitter@adamdicker and his DN Forum has an account on Twitter DNForum. His websites are dnforum.com, adamdicker.ca and of course dcg.com.

Adam Dicker, thank you for taking the time, coming on the show and being a DomainSherpa for other entrepreneurs and investors.

Adam: thank you very much and I also don’t mind giving out my Skype which is adam.dicker. I also don’t mind giving them my cell phone because I enjoy helping other people. So 416-884-0535. Any time I can help a fellow domainer it is good for everybody in the business.

Michael: That is very generous of you Adam. I thank you again and thank you all for watching.
We will see you next time.

Watch the full video at:
http://www.domainsherpa.com/adam-dicker-dnforum-interview


Uniregistry.com

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92 Responses to “Stop Parking Domains and Build a Real Business – With Adam Dicker”

  1. Boluji says:

    Dear Adam, please having repeated reading of this interview above, please I have a question for you and the question is HOW DO I PARK DOMAIN WITH GOOGLE? HOW CAN I GET THE LINK? IS IT WITH HAVING ADSENSE ACCOUNT? PRECISELY, HOW DO I GO ABOUT THE SAID PARKING WITH GOOGLE AS STATED On this interview as quoted below:

    “Adam: Yes I do. Time is the most proven test and Google has outlasted everybody else that has tried to come on with the ad feed and tried to compete with Google and nobody has been able to compare in revenue at least now to Google. And I am currently still using Google today to park my domains and I am using Frank Shilling’s internet traffic to park them. And I am quite happy with the results.”

    Thanks, cheers and happy new year 2014

  2. Eric Jenkins says:

    Thanks…….

    Thanks for the interview I learned a great deal about what it takes to work a niche. I have one question. Do you think it is possible to cover a niche if you can only afford to register the “state” domain names without the “city” domain names?

    Thanks again

    Eric Jenkins

  3. vashti says:

    thanks for this indepth interview. priceless. I have some ideas and now I have so many options
    available. golden.. Adam you are very upfront hve given more info than the highest price so called gurus out there..

    Michael you had great questions as usual, appreciate all that you do..

  4. Cam says:

    Excellent interview and very generous of both of you for taking the time out and making such great information available to any one with an interest in domain names and business in general.

  5. […] extrait d’une interview d’Adam Dicker sur DomainSherpa est très claire sur ce point: “Typically I research a lot of niches and I tend to look for […]

  6. Zonqor says:

    I cannot understand the leads? how do you get leads on your uscordbank.com for example?

    Thank you and great interview.

    • Zonqor says:

      Hi Adam, great idea with the CordBank. However I noticed on Godaddy that your cordbank domains are either on Auction or at Premium Sale.I’m confused.:s Kindly enlighten :)

      tnx

  7. Adam Dicker says:

    Another interview with me was posted today. As usual it is an open and honest interview, please leave your comments or questions on the interview and enjoy, it’s agood one!

    http://www.domainsherpa.com/reputation-repair/

  8. Tyson says:

    Adam is a really great guy. After watching this interview I reached out to him for a quick question and he gave me some great advice. I got signed up for DNforum and it is full useful information. Thanks Adam and Michael

  9. VOC says:

    Very interesting interview, with detailed strategy. This gives a lot of idea to build a niche business. I wonder how you heard about cord blood banks :)

  10. jaydub says:

    Thanks for taking the time Adam. It is a good listen.

  11. Adam Dicker says:

    We taped a long interview that Michael will be posting next Monday December 12th on ‘How to sell a domain name’.

    I think you will find it really jam packed with useful information. You will need a pen for this one. We alloted 60 minutes but I think it ended up going over 2 hours. ;)

  12. Pat Quinn says:

    Michael, great interview. Adam, very generous of you to share your strategy in such detail, and answer follow-up questions as well.

    Thanks much.

  13. Mike says:

    Oh…..and I forgot one other thing……the time you are giving back to the community and answering all these questions and EVEN taking cell phone calls.

    I don’t even answer the phone most of the time b/c it gets in the way of my auctions. How can you possibly do all this?

    Very impressive.

    • Adam Dicker says:

      You know I really enjoy taking the calls and helping people get started or answering questions. It’s a real high knowing you not only can help but you have the knwoledge to add value to someone else’s business. Plus I find people very appreaciative and you can never have too many friends. ;)

  14. Mike says:

    Great interview, you keep getting better at the questions and you are better at the allowing complete answers. In your very first interviews I had thought you did not allow a few folks to finish.

    You have really become super-professional at these interviews. I could not do it was well as you for sure.

    Also, thanks Adam for sharing. I’m a much smaller domainer than you and I find all my time is used up already searching for new domains, studying them, selling domains, etc……

    My question to you is how to you do so well with your time management to where you can buy domains, sell domains, maintain your portfolio, maintain DNForum, DNCollege, your lead generation network, all your employees/contractors, as well as still having time for your family, friends and yourself???

    How do you do this? I’m perplexed where the time comes from.

    • Adam Dicker says:

      The simple answer is you delegate what you can and micromanage a few staff memebers to get the projects done. There are just some things I never delegate like sales and my portfolio management. Anything involving revenue I do myself. For dnfourm.com its a community so the members and moderators play a key role. As far as dnfcollege.com that’s all me.

    • Thanks, Mike. Sometimes I still feel like I should cut people off — if only to save a few seconds so I can keep the interview as short as possible. But on the other hand, if the interviewee is willing to stay longer, that more benefit for those of us that want to hear more.

      I appreciate your kind words about my show. I’m actively trying to improve each show, so thanks for noticing and commenting. :)

  15. Zap says:

    Absolutely great interview! Lots of tips and tricks! Adam looks like to be a genuine guy who you can trust!

    Thanks

    • Adam Dicker says:

      @Zap, Thank you.
      By 2013, most people will be doing lead gen and will abandon parking. People that just stick with parking will be forced back to a full time job if they haven’t been already. Leadgen is a business model that if done correctly can be way better than parking or a 9-5 job.

  16. Christian says:

    Hello Adam,

    Do you know of any bank cord companies that one could become a publisher with and earn the $200 per lead and not the $700 per lead?

  17. George says:

    Adam, I know you are a big believer in .ca domains. How do you feel about the lead generation model in Canada? Do you find that there are any unique challenges in Canada that don’t exist in the USA?

    • Adam Dicker says:

      I feel their are actually better opportunities in Canada than the USA because there are many more premium two word domains that match up that are available in Canada. It’s all about finding the right partner and the right industry. There are over 80 good leadgen industries you just have to find good partners that want more business, and these days who doesn’t?

  18. Adam Dicker says:

    For any of you curious, my first domain registered was in 1998, it was Powerwindows.com, the name of my ISP Company.
    Domain Name: POWERWINDOWS.COM
    Created on: 28-Sep-98

  19. Bill says:

    I would imagine that since this is the first interview with Adam Dicker that we would at least get to the bottom of how he started in the domain industry. Which episode will Adam be discussing how he sold pirated satellite? http://www.newtechmagazine.com/issues/printer.aspx?aid=1000009029

    • Adam Dicker says:

      @Bill, Your missing the rest of the story.
      Like the charge against me was dropped because in Canada where I ran 3 stores, it was considered by the courts to be grey market and not illegal. When it became illegal I shut down all 3 stores. Long before 2003 I was buying domain names so anytime you want to discuss it feel free to call me for as they say…. the rest of the story. 416-884-0535.

    • Adam Dicker says:

      For the record, before Satellite, I ran a computer company that was successful for about 6 years and then along came the interenet so I closed the computer company and started an ISP. That is actually what led me to get interested in the internet and that’s when I started buying domains. I eventually closed the ISP because I couldn’t compete with the bigger companies but I learned alot about business along the way. I would say the ISP was a lot of fun as I had a T1 going into my house.

      • What’s amazing is that I know about four successful entrepreneurs (yourself included) that had their start in the ISP era, either working at an ISP or owning an ISP. I need to learn more about that business model and why it produced so many successful people.

        • Adam Dicker says:

          The ISP industry just served to introduce us to the internet and the fact that we could get customers while we slept. There is no greater joy than getting a good night sleep then checking your email to find orders when you start your day. That’s what hooked us most about the internet.

  20. Chittagong says:

    A very fine interview. I never had more than 20 domains; just wondering how Mr. Adam 40000 domains and how much he is making out of it.

    • Adam Dicker says:

      @Chittagong
      Not all are profitable, as a matter of fact. People with larger portfolios probably drop more domains than the average person with 1000 and would drop much less than the person with 20. I know I drop hundreds every month. No sense keeping something that isn’t making money unless I plan on develeoping it later.

  21. Christian says:

    @Adam

    For cord blood?

    I know there are a lot of companies one can become a publisher in education, insurance, real estate and etc. Where do you find a company that will let you be a publisher for cord blood?

    Thank you for your time.

  22. […] your business. Please leave a comment after you watch the video on the domainsherpa.com website. http://www.domainsherpa.com/adam-dic…rum-interview/ Thanks, […]

  23. David says:

    @Adam – Awesome interview and information. I noticed on your cord bank website that the written content on each of state and city pages appears to be very similar or identical. From your experience does Google consider this duplicate content and reduce the PR for your site and the pages accordingly? I have always been told to be careful about duplicate content and I’m building out a vital records website right now which has pages for each state so your guidance would be appreciated.

    Thanks.

  24. SunnyG says:

    @Michael. Thank you very much for an another incredible interview on Domain Sherpa.
    I have thoroughly enjoyed every bit of it, and have learned a lot about development and lead gen from Adam.

    @Adam. Appreciate a lot for not withholding anything back, but sharing everything openly about your domaining business and experience. You are incredible, and also your DNForum!

    SunnyG

  25. vincent says:

    Adam,
    Nice interview. Michael, I just love your questions, on this interview and on other ones, which is why I always look forward to your interviews. You know how to ask. You dig down to the bottom. Which is why I keep coming back.

    Adam, you’re a good man. Despite your busy time, you help us junior domainers out. Your dnf college is a great thing you have done.

    Should invite Adam for more interviews. He has a lot we can learn from.

    • Thanks for your kind words, Vincent. I’m pleased you’re finding enough benefit to come back each week.

      Per your (and my) request, Adam is coming back again. He’ll be back in a few weeks talking about domain name sales. I’m very interested in this topic, as are most (if not all) domain investors. Stay tuned.

  26. Christian says:

    Question for Adam.

    First off, very nice interview and very helpful information. Thanks Michael.

    Adam, in the video you state that using a lead generation company they can pay around $200 per lead and building the leads yourself you negotiated $700 per lead. What are some of the companies people who want to build a site can team up with to sell the leads?

  27. RK says:

    Great article, goes to show development can pay of if done right!

  28. How come some people are willing to pay money like $1000-2000 for parking account with certain websites?That means for me that it is worth to park at some and not worth at others!

  29. Adam Dicker says:

    Another free tip:

    Get on every gadget and new tech list you can, that way you would know that after bluray is a new disc called violet ray which holds 20 times the storage as blu ray. Now go get some violet ray domain names.:)

    http://slumz.boxden.com/f13/good-bye-blu-ray-hello-violet-ray-ps4-1399763/

  30. Fero says:

    Best interview so far Michael, grate share from Adam , thanks .

  31. Shree says:

    Thank you Michael & Adam. Its quite informative and gives the perfect vision of things that a domainer must know.

    Being a newbie , I will definately read it multiple times so not to miss any of the points.

    Thanks again.

    • Thanks, Shree. I appreciate your comments. There is one audience member that listens to the MP3 and notes the areas that interest him the most, later returning to his computer and shortening the audio to only the sections of interest to him so he can listen to it over and over again (which I’m totally fine with for personal use, of course). I thought it was a great alternative to reading a script over and over again. :)

  32. MG says:

    Michael you sure did deliver! Thanks guys, Adam it was so informative.

    Question: So on your page USAcordbank.com you have a “Request More Information” contact form plugin which I assume is how you collect your leads. But on your “Pricing” page you have links to various Cord Banks, Registries, etc with actual LINKS/PHONE NUMBERS. Doesn’t this bypass your lead system ? Can’t someone just click those links, call, etc. and you’ll never get credit for the lead ? Why even list that information ?

    Thanks again !

  33. Great job in leading the interview Michael! Get Adam back again soon… his brain needs some more picking! Thanks for what you 2 do for this industry.

    James

    • Adam Dicker says:

      Thanks Boston Domainer,
      Michael knows I have much more to give and we are planning on at least 4 more interviews. It’s up to Micahel but I believe the next one will have a focus on the many ways to sell a domain based on you being the aggressor. Domaining is 5% buting domains and 95% knowing how to sell it. ;)

    • Thanks, BostonDomainer. I appreciate you watching and commenting. Adam is the main one to thank, but I appreciate your kind words.

      Hopefully soon Adam and I will do another show.

  34. Poor Uncle says:

    Hi Adam,

    Thanks for sharing your experience. That was some great information. I have a quick question.
    Are you concern with the liability that you assume by forming a corporation with the cord blood bank you partner with?

    You mentioned that if they screw you, then you can look for another partner and just cut them off. But what if they screw the customers? It seems like by forming a corporation with them makes it hard for you to cut them off.

    • Adam Dicker says:

      I re-read the interview, they formed a new corporation and I had a lawyer draw up a legal contract to be their exclusive partner. My name is not on the Corporation.

      I am not concerned about how the customers get treated as I know they will be treated well, they want continued leads from me as for every dollar I make they also make a dollar.

      • Poor Uncle says:

        Thanks for the clarification Adam.
        I notice usacordbank.com is really slow at the moment…appx. 7pm Pacific Time.

        You know after watching a few videos from all the successful domain investors, it occur to me that you guys all have excellent business know-how.

        It would never occur to me to have them sign an exclusive lead provider contract…or how you go about to identify the partner you wanted to work with.

        Can you go into more detail on how the arrangement was negociated? ie. how did you decide on your commission rates, what is the length of the agreement, and any other terms. Lastly, I notice in the pricing page that it gives the impression that usacordbank.com is the provider. Since your website only provide leads…is that a bit misleading?

        • Adam Dicker says:

          @poor Uncle,
          Can you go into more detilail on how the arrangement was negociated?

          When I go in with leads, I have the upper hand. I use that to get 50% of the proifit after expenses. I use the same formula with all lead gen companies I approach directly when I know there is no midle man involved. I tell them they can have 50% of what I am offereing them, guarateed business, or they can continue the way they are without my leads and have 100% of nothing because I will take my leads elsewhere.

          The contract is a 2 year contract newewable automatically unless one party gives 30 days written notice to the other. In such an arrangement with both parties making revenue, neither party will withdraw. If they do withdraw, I have many others in line to convert my leads.

          As far as the website being misleading, all parties are called before the lead is passed and asked if it is ok if we pass the lead to the cord bank so they can deal directly with them. Most people appreaciate the henesty and I have had no issues at all.

          • Poor Uncle says:

            Adam,

            Thanks for the valuable information. I have one last question if you don’t mind.
            As a successful online business person how do you mitigate against lawsuits or overcome fear of lawsuits that may paralyzed you from pursue an online business venture?

            Being a conservative guy, if I were in your shoes and the owner of usacordbank.com…I can imagine a worst case scenarios where I maybe sued for multi million dollars by one of the cord bank customers because her cord blood was not store properly and therefore cause her not able to use it at the time she needed it.

            AS a successful business person do you have such negative thoughts? If yes, how do you overcome your fear and mitigate your risk. If no, do you just roll the dice and deal with it when it occur?

            • Adam Dicker says:

              @Poor Uncle
              No, The contract specifically outlines what company is responsible for what. It clearly states we provide the leads and that the cord bank is responsible for the handling and storing of the cord blood samples. The customer is also made aware that thye cord bank is who they are dealing with rigfht up front.

  35. Eby says:

    That was brilliant.. too bad the audio got in the way of the interview. But for all I know, Adam is someone who is willing to give to others, and is an excellent example of someone who had “made it”. I salute you Adam and thanks for the motivation and encouragement. DOTCA

  36. Jimmy says:

    Forgot to ask one more thing I was curious about. Adam – if you didn’t enter into the legal partnership and just had an agreement with them, how can you track lead conversions? Or would you recommend someone to just get paid per lead since there is no chance they can shave you when you know how many leads you sent them?

    • Adam Dicker says:

      @Jimmy,
      The best place to find untapped niches is through the yellow pages and estimate what they make so you know who would pay more for leads. I will never make as much on a limo or florist lead as I will on a lead for cord blood or for real estate as these guys make higher commisssions.

      I track all my leads by doing follow up calls 1 week later to ask how they liked the service, that way I check to see that they did and I create a relationship in case they need the service again.

    • Adam Dicker says:

      Free added tip: Right now better than cord blood is homecare. As baby boomers hit their 60’s and 70′ they will need homecare and the leads for that are huge.

  37. Jimmy says:

    Nice interview!

    Adam – how do you go about finding these untapped niches like Cord Bank? I know you mentioned traffic travis. Did you use that tool to find this niche?

  38. Excellent interview Michael. Adam once again, thanks for sharing your insights.

    I’m also a member of the college and can attest that Adam is putting in a tremendous amount of effort to help out fellow domainers. In particular with the help of DNF college, I’ve been able to focus effort to build a new portfolio of domains and sites.

  39. Great article and interview It inspired me to start developing http://cordbank.com.au

  40. Zack Shyner says:

    This is the most useful interview I’ve seen in my 5 years of domaining. It’s full of high level strategic information, but also deep dives into the details. Congrats to Michael on figuring out a killer platform and delivering on it. A BIG thanks for Adam for sharing his latest venture.

    It proves that the “wild wild west” still has plenty of gold mining left. You just have to know where to look!

  41. donnied says:

    Fantastic interview. Simple but extremely useful.
    Congrats.

  42. Scott Smith says:

    Hey Michael,

    Very well done, in spite of the audio problems…

    I’ve known Adam for many years and can attest that what you saw on the interview is the real deal.

    Cheers,
    Scott

    • Thanks for commenting, Scott. Looking forward to getting you on the show when Power.com is a done deal! :)

      I’m always amazed, too, when technology gets the better of the show in today’s day and age. You’d think we’d be beyond issues, but not quite yet.

  43. Richard says:

    Domainers helping domainers! That is what I like to see :D
    Thanks Adam for sharing some great takeaways, and thanks to Micheal for another great interview.

  44. Steve says:

    @Micheal – Thanks again, I always enjoy your interviews. I am in DNF College and Adam shares an incredible amount of information. For example, he tipped us off the day he purchased the cord blood domains and I was able to buy 30 top cities and states. Adam really is trying to give back, spread the knowledge and improve the quality of many peoples lives.

    @Adam – Thanks for walking the walk! Building my cordblood sites now with my team in Costa Rica. Little slower getting them online, but the working conditions are nice and the surf is slowing me down:)

    Steve

    • Thanks for commenting, Steve. If Adam tipped you off to cord blood, you can get into homecare just as easy right now (see Adam’s comment below).

      You are correct, Adam is a giver and I’m glad I got to know him. I encourage everyone to send a tweet, email or post to let Adam know how much you appreciated him sharing. I learned a great deal and it motivated me to look at lead gen in many other areas.

  45. […] and it's definitly worth a listen. Your comments there and here would be appreaciated. http://www.domainsherpa.com/adam-dic…rum-interview/ Adam […]

  46. […] and it's definitly worth a listen. Your comments there and here would be appreaciated. http://www.domainsherpa.com/adam-dic…rum-interview/ Adam […]

  47. Adam Dicker says:

    Anunt,

    I have had my own overseas development team for 12 years, but you are correct there are some that are good and there are some that will just take the money and run. Please feel free to email me and I will get one of them to do your sites for you and work with you.

    Adam Dicker
    Adam@dcg.com

  48. Hey what an inspiring story and very comprehensive answers as well, a very good read and one to get the grey matter switched on ……. many thanks : )

    • You’re welcome. Adam did a fantastic job going into all of the details, and I appreciate it too.

      Thanks for your comment. Please come back and tell us which industry or niche you get into as a result of this interview.

  49. Anunt says:

    Great interview as always!

    Question for Adam: Which site do you recommend or how do you find people overseas like india to work for you?

    If you wanted to develop one of your premium domain names right now, who would you use…someone from overseas or someone locally?

    I am currently looking to develop a premium domain name into a full blown website…and i’m not having much luck finding a good developer…can you please recommend someone?

    Thank you…and once again…great interview!

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